# Money is the root of all _______?

1. Apr 7, 2003

### megashawn

You know the classic saying, money is the root of all evil. Another one is "the best things in life are free."

In reality however, this is not the case. If you are without money, you are without happiness, home, food, car, etc. It is nearly impossible to improve oneself without money. You cannot get a good education without it, and therefore, cannot get a good paying job. If you can't get a good paying job, you can't put gas in your car to go to the grocery store. If you can't afford gas, how are you going to eat?

People don't really think about it, but what would you do if you woke up tommorow and your currency was no longer worth anything?

How would you survive? Do you know how to hunt, clean the kill, cook it and such? Have you ever grown your own food, enough to last you an entire year? Do you even know how? How would you obtain the seeds, fertilizer, water, various tools needed to maintain your garden? If your a hunter, how would you supply bullets for your gun? What about when there are no more? Do you know how to make a spear, or bow and arrow? Do you have what it takes to go toe to toe with a deer?

Basically, what I'm saying is that it is logically incorrect to say "Money is the root of all evil" and "The best things in life are free". If money is evil, then why does it require so much of it to save a single childs life? Is that an evil deed? If the best things in life are free, then could someone please tell me the closest route to the free food store? Surely food would be considered one of "the best things."

What would you consider the best things in life? Are they free? I can't think of one single hobbie I partake in that is free. Even love, is not free. Even something as simple as taking a little time and walking around in the woods behind my house, while it does not cost me a penny, cost me time. Time that I could spend doing other things to make money, in order to put food on the table and pay off bill colectors (Abosolutly the best thing in life).

Just some thoughts

2. Apr 7, 2003

### kyleb

that is what is meant by money is the root of all evil, it distracts people from the freedoms of the world that bring us true happiness. on that note is another old adage; "money cannot buy happiness." i know a lot of people will argue otherwise, but they are not very happy people. also, yes, i feel comfortable in saying that i could live of the land; but i know i am in the great minority when it comes to that. lastly, love is very much free, if you don't think so it is because you are confusing love with something else.

3. Apr 7, 2003

### FZ+

Another one is: "There is no such thing as a free lunch". The thing about all good sayings is that they are totally meaningless.

That's capitalism for ya. The problem is that there is no good alternatives, at least yet.

My opinion? Money is not the root of anything. Money is a tool, an useful one that prevents economic disorder. Placing too much of an emphasis on the acquisition of money leads to problems with people around you, and undermines your well being, but does not bring an amorphous evil.

And isn't the path to hell paved with good intentions?

4. Apr 7, 2003

### Raavin

Well money can't buy happiness but it can sure reduce stresses if you live in a world run by it. Money is just an IOU. A barter where someone skims a bit off the top every time it is passed. No matter what system of exchange you use, if your basic needs are met it is going to be easier. It's not about being able to hunt and gather for yourself. You're still working to survive, like you said, that doesn't make it free. The advantages of the monetary system far outweigh the problems. Now if we could just work out a way that it was more fairly distributed.

Love, children, friends and comfort are the best things in life. Can you buy them or, do they come at a price you can measure in dollars or some other barter amount? That's for the individual to work out. I know that if I had to pay to keep the first two, I would spend all my cash on them. Considering that, I suppose with them I am rich no matter how much cash I have in my pocket.

Raavin [?]

5. Apr 7, 2003

### Mr. Robin Parsons

A minor correction....?

Actually, the quote you seem to be using is one from the Bible, and it states that it is the LUST for money that is the root of all evil, not money is the root of all evil, as it clearly is not.

It is when the desire for money exceeds all else, then that desire (lust) overwhelms even the most level headed thinkers and all "He double hockey sticks" breaks out.

It is represented by something that I had called "Lu$t corp", the cumulative effect of the emotive that exists in business where the bottom line predicates every move, motion, direction, and application. If it were not for Greed, then money could be used properly, and all would be able to share in the wealth of the planet, but, sadly, money is equated with power, hence there are plenty who seek it's 'abilities', even though the ability of money is exactly what we, all, collectively, give it! As for "The best things in life are free", simple, take a deep breath, then send me$24.95 for it, elseif, it's FREE!

6. Apr 7, 2003

### enigma

Staff Emeritus
Girls (or for the ladies out there, you can replace with boys...) require both money and time.

Girls = Money * Time

And as we all know, time is money.

Girls = Money ^2

Money is the root of all evil.

Money = [sqrt]evil

Girls = ([sqrt]Evil)^2

Cancel the terms, and you get mathematical proof that:

Girls = Evil

7. Apr 7, 2003

I Tim 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

I Tim 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Nope, this would be like saying that prior to the existence of money there were no happy people. Some of the happiest people I’ve known didn’t have a pot to p-p in.

Eating gives me gas, perhaps that is the answer to this dilemma. Actually I do understand what you mean here and will address it momentarily.

Actually it isn’t really worth anything even as we speak (fiat money: http://www.geocities.com/tthor.geo/debasedmoney.html) but that’s another story…

From a lack of most of the items described came Homo sapiens. It is altogether possible to survive. Chew on a root, munch some Heart of Palm (and I don’t mean this type: http://www.heartofpalmbeach.org/heartofpalmbeach/), smile at your loved ones and be cheerful.

Love, companionship, sex, gazing upon a beautiful shimmering sunset or mountain range, quenching one’s thirst in a cool unpolluted stream, etc. I imagine these are some of the better things in life. They can be had by even the destitute.

Money makes things easier, I would never deny this. If walking around in the woods costs you time, and time costs you money, then what about cuddling up on a couch with the little lady and watching a movie together? Perhaps it would be better to be at work 24/7? When is it safe to relax and enjoy your life?
I have a philosophy which states that there are no hungry philosophers. It basically means that when you are up to your eyeballs just trying to survive that you have little time for reflection. Being able to produce more than one needs to eat for immediate survival must have been a boon for the thinkers of times past. In our time, endless chasing after material things I can’t help but view as a regression of sorts. You have to weigh your situation and set goals. You will likely have to make sacrifices to obtain these goals, and there will be stretches of time when things are difficult indeed. I hope your goals will be reached.

I love material things not only because they offer physical comforts but also for mental distractions. If I lost all that I own there would be some adjustments to be made for sure, but from the bush I came and to the bush I go. The Urban Jungle is an interesting place, but it is not the only place. It is an artificial world often filled with superficial people. To put a Yanomamo Indian in the city or to put an Urbanite in the jungle places both at a disadvantage. I still think the cockroaches and fire ants will inherit the world.
Let the rat race commence.

8. Apr 8, 2003

### steppenwolf

brilliant post boulderhead, not much to add really...

i was reminded of epicurean philosophy, which is the only philosophy i really identify with, epicure believed that to be happy man only needs 3 things; friends, freedom and thought. money obviously does not figure in this list, but that is not to say it doesn't help. with money you can take your friends to dinner, with money you can buy a tent and go bush to get some freedom from the rat race, with money you can buy a book about epicure! money isn't happiness though, someone who doesn't have friends, freedom or thought but is insanely rich does not lead a happy life, and someone without money but with the three essential items can be reasonably happy, alhtough 'a pot to p-p in' always helps.

9. Apr 8, 2003

### Mr. Robin Parsons

Speaking on behalf of the destitute, "Not a chance"

No money, no women! (you can be rather sure of that one)

Companionship, only the rest of the destitute, who are not always (thought some are) the best of company.

Sex, heck whats that???? (NO!)

Gazing upon a beautiful shimmering sunset, doesn't it cost money to get to that place, usually, same as the mountain range, getting there is costly, not usually free unless you are willing to take (possible MAJOR) risks!

An un-polluted stream, HA hahahahahahahahahahahaha, Where?!!

Free, take a deep breath! (and hope you don't choke on it!)

10. Apr 8, 2003

Mr Parsons,
Your views are a product of your upbringing and show an unimaginative bias that I have found to be common among people born and raised in American cities. Let me take them one at a time;
You must be a descendant of the first line of millionaire Cave Men then? I suppose nobody got laid until some diamonds or gold were found stuck in the side of a cave, haha.

To believe that you must only socialize with the wealthy people is a mark of elitism and is an ugly a way to think.

You express a cynical view and may be pulling my leg, I’m not sure. One thing I am sure of is that believing oneself to be educated and intelligent a person should also take charge of their own life. If you don’t like the view, have you considered moving?

If I told you would you bring industrialization to the area and destroy it, or would you feel that it didn’t really count simply because it isn’t expedient for you to move there?

If you are looking for happiness and believe it can only be found by having money then you truly have my sympathies. If you ever woke up one morning and felt good all day then woke up the next morning and seemed depressed, yet nothing much had really changed, you might understand that happiness is a state of mind, not a material possession such as an automobile.

11. Apr 8, 2003

### Mr. Robin Parsons

Clearly you have misread me, but tell me what you really know, of being destitute, from personal experiance, cause I have some of that, experiance, YOU??

12. Apr 8, 2003

I didn’t say you were American, I only spoke of what I was reminded of.

You claimed their was no chance of an 'interlude' with a woman without money and that simply isn’t true, despite the fact that having money increases your odds.

You made the following statement;
“Companionship, only the rest of the destitute, who are not always (thought some are) the best of company.” … and this statement complains that despite the destitute sometimes being good company that somehow this isn’t good enough.

Are you looking for someone to instruct you on how to conduct your life? Do I know your exact conditions so as to enable me to advise you?

I have been drinking from a stream for many years as did an entire village nearby until a few years ago when the convenience of a government sponsored water supply was erected, and this was done more because a little boy drown in the river when his dory tipped over after fetching several buckets of water than owing to pollutants in the water.

Do not you make assumptions about the intelligence of other’s and yet become offended when the shoe is on the other foot?
You painted a gloomy picture of life that while it may be your condition it is certainly not everyone else’s.

I was born and raised in a state of utter abject poverty. Only a ‘lucky’ break owing to the nature of who my biological father was ‘saved me’ after I was several years old. I’m talking about a bed on dirt floors, no shoes, virtually no clothing. There is simply little chance that you could hope to ‘out poor me’, haha, and yet none of the people I knew seemed as unhappy and cynical as you strike me as being.

13. Apr 8, 2003

### megashawn

Oh man, where to start? Nice replys everyone.

I am not one who wishes to be rich and powerfull. I only would like to be able to do things I would like to do. What these things are belong to another topic, but all of them require money.

I mean, in this day and age, people do not survive without money. It is another thing that has removed the "Survival of the fittest" from humanity. I mean, anyone who can spend a few hours a day, a few days a week at a resturaunt sweeping floors can survive. The problem is that people do not just want to survive.

As to choosing your company according to how much money one has, that is truly ignorant. Unfortunatly, I believe most of the world is living blissfully waiting on Christ to come back and make everything alright. A few people here live up to this belief.

As to water quality, alot of streams are polluted, but hey, so is most of the water we drink from our faucets, so Live up to it. I know of a few streams in NC that are fit for drinking, even though they do not taste like it.

It seems that most people here feel pretty confident in there ability to survive without modern conviences such as convience stores. You must wonder how much of the world population would not make it if things suddenly reverted back to pre-Industrial revolution conditions. While I'm sure I could survive, as I've been trained to do so, I'm not sure I would want to.

And an excellent opinion that is.

Well, as with any machine that uses oxygen for energy, oxygen is not the only thing needed to sustain life. You can take all the deep breaths you want, but its not gonna help a person who hasn't eaten in 2 weeks, or a person suffering of a basic flu, but lacks funds to by medicine or antibiotics. So, just as the air intake needed to power a gasoline engine is free, it still requires fuel to get the job done, which, is not free.

Boulderhead, thanks for your response, exactly what I was looking for.

And I'll close with another quote from the bible:

Proverbs 13:11
Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished; but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.

Now, this is completly untrue. Living proof that this is untrue is Bill Gates. I'm sure there are other multimillionaires who have gotten there money via means other then labour. A saying I've come up with is "People get to the top by stepping on the backs of the laborers." In other words, you have 20 people working for you, each making 6.50/hour. The job there doing will bring in many thousands to the company, and they, the ones actually doing the work only see a small percentage of the money made.

Infact, the above quote shows yet another way the bible was used as a tool by upper crust to trick poor and middle class people to keep working and god will pay them for there deeds. But, a topic for another discussion.

14. Apr 8, 2003

My bet is that you will pursue your goals and find a way to succeed.

It is the human condition to have to fight for survival whether it involves planting crops, hunting an animal, or in these times holding down a job. If there weren’t any jobs we would have to complain about hunting Mastodons just to keep our heads above water. Humans, IMO, don’t want to work, they want to play (I know I am this way). They would like to ‘cheat’ Mother Nature and devise a way to avoid as much work as possible. Different economic theories have been tried, etc.

I understand, but I’m saying that there is a distinction between being able to be happy and thinking that happiness can only come through material possessions. I think this is the main point that I had wanted to make. Many people place their measure of happiness in direct proportion to the amount of material possessions they own. I know that money and material things are great and can help in many ways to make life more enjoyable, but I also know that there is more to happiness than that. People are adaptable and can find happiness even if they don’t get to buy everything they want and it seems our nature to want, want, want.

Money makes the ride smoother and provides interesting distractions but there are also miserable rich people. If money is what you think you need then come up with a plan and pursue it. I hope in the end that it is happiness you find regardless of your economic status in life.

And this comes from someone who encourages others to 'go for the money' when choosing a career. It is just easier on you when you get old if you aren’t dependant upon other’s for your well-being, plus you get to play with all sorts of cool toys and pick up on additional high society 'babes', haha

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2003
15. Apr 9, 2003

### Mr. Robin Parsons

16. Apr 9, 2003

Are you insane?
Let’s start over then and see what was actually said;

Here you have intentionally omitted the first part of what I said in order to make a false point. What I said was;

“Mr Parsons,
Your views are a product of your upbringing and show an unimaginative bias that I have found to be common among people born and raised in American cities. Let me take them one at a time;”

Now, I never claimed that you were born and raised in an American city. What I said was that your views I have found to be common among people who were. The first part was about the fact that we are all a product of our upbringing and was meant to impress that growing up in Urban areas and being exposed to such things as television instill upon people that certain material goods are required to obtain happiness. In retrospect I can see how you may have taken it the wrong way and I apologize for my poor wording but to flat out claim you to be an American was not what was on my mind.

Now you are telling a lie, flat out. Here is what you actually said;
“Speaking on behalf of the destitute, "Not a chance"
No money, no women! (you can be rather sure of that one)”

I think you may need to clean your glasses for you were assuring me “No money, no women”. Forget about now trying to shift the conversation to a “realistic understanding” because while there is some merit to that statement it is off the point of what you actually claimed.

This is nothing but rubbish and you know it. You ignore that you were the one who made the original statement which seemed to complain about the company you could keep when you didn’t have enough money, then you hurl more insults.

You were the one asking for instruction. Don’t ask for help next time, cho!

How is it that you can even bring yourself to ask such an asinine question? You complained that there was no clean water to drink and you were mistaken.

Oh, you make assumptions, don’t fool yourself. Also, I’m not that interested in having too deep a knowledge of you as I suspect that creek is something of a drywash.

Now you continue with the lowbrow commentaries and attempt to negate the fact that I have indeed known poor people and poverty. Do you remember when you said;
Well, now you know don’t you.

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2003
17. Apr 10, 2003

### GlamGein

Its highly ironic that the main proponents of the idea "the love of money is the root of all evil" is the church, which has been the richest and most powerful entity on earth for centuries.
It all boils down to social control. convince people money is bad, and then they will be happy to give it to you.

18. Apr 10, 2003

I agree.

I really must thank Mr. Parsons,
Early this morning just as the first rays of daylight began to appear I was in bed with my wife. I gazed for several minutes at her as she slept beside me. Studying the fine array of wrinkles on her face, some of which took the delightful form of “crow’s feet” at the corners of her eyes, I marveled at the depth of emotion I felt for this woman. So many years together and so many trials we had been through. It was easy for me to see past the wrinkles and spot the beautiful, fresh-faced young woman that I became so enamored of in my youth. I began to reflect on the content of this thread and as she continued in her sleep I knew that she was the best thing in my life. So many things I could not have done if it were not for her. Love, companionship, working together to achieve some goal we shared in common, and much more. I was thankful that we were both still alive and wondered momentarily if it would be better for her to go first, or me. I asked myself “What price had I paid to now be enjoying this blissful moment and, perhaps more importantly, what precisely was it costing me at this particular instant in time?”
It began to dawn on me that attempting to add every penny up and set the moment equal to some amount of money was an impossible task. How could I remember with such detail in the first place and I felt the moment was priceless in the second. I was at last left contemplating only what the moment itself was costing me and realized exactly what it was; it was costing me only my sleep. I’m not sure that I would consider sleep to be the same as money, but it was definitely an excellent value I was getting and well worth it.

19. Apr 10, 2003

### Mr. Robin Parsons

Bye BH

All you have succeeded in demonstrating here is that you have, clearly, a pre-prejudiced notion about these things, and cannot break out of your own preconception as to what is reality, not simply your convenient box to fit people in.

It is called a generalization, and generally speaking, it fits!

The Not a chance deals with the simplicity that the vast majority of women do NOT want a man with no money, no home, nothing material to share with them.
Yes, there are exceptions, I probably know some of them, No I would not take the very clear (to me) medical risks. But, as I can, what?, Safely assume?, you have little experience with any of this as a knowledgeable adult!

Once again, what the heck would you know about it? (not much!)
P.S. you have yet to see me “Hurl Insults” that’s for certain!

And just where do you see me asking you for help?? Cause this is what I asked for realistically,
as apparently you seem to think all of what you suggest is do-able, without a cent, not very bright!

And here YOU go, doing exactly what you just accused me of doing, “hurling insults”

This is the classic “I know what it’s like because I know some of those people too” line which is a great way to fool yourself, like believing you know exactly what it is like to go skydiving when you have actually never gone.

Clearly you have no Idea of what poverty is like, as you experience of poverty, as a child, was lacking the knowledge of what it is like to have money, hence you really didn’t know what poverty was all about, you where told by adults that you had been poor, and you have since then, used it as a “badge of braggadocio”, implying that you somehow had it difficult. The one who had it difficult was actually your DAD.

Thank God I have no children.

This is the evidence of that;

As for your perception of me being cynical and unhappy, you couldn’t be farther from the truth of it if you tried!

Not withstanding that, I am realistic, not self deluded, like you apparently are!

Further to that, clearly you either do not know/understand, or will not know/understand, hence I am leaving this discourse right here, cause I got nothing to prove to you, and you are successfully proving yourself to be arrogantly lacking in knowledge that you would wish all to think you have.

20. Apr 10, 2003