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Monument to homophobia

  1. Oct 8, 2003 #1
    (Casper, Wyoming) Anti-gay preacher Fred Phelps has announced intentions to erect a monument to Matthew Shepard the gay college student brutally murdered five years ago near Laramie.

    But, the monument will be no memorial. Phelps says the monument would be 5 to 6 feet tall and made of marble or granite. It would bear a bronze plaque bearing the image of Shepard and have an inscription reading "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22."

    The monument would be erected in downtown Casper, Shepard's home town.

    Phelps has sent details of the monument to the city of Casper city council and there may be nothing the city can do to prevent it.

    Phelps said he intends to put up the monument in City Park, already the location of a controversial statue of the Ten Commandments.

    The Ten Commandments statue was donated to the city by the Fraternal Order of the Eagles in 1965.

    After a court battle over a similar monument in the city of Ogden, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that any city that displays a Ten Commandments monument on public property must also allow monuments espousing the views of other religions or political groups on that same property.

    Phelps told Casper council in his letter that if it attempts to prevent him from erecting the homophobic monument he's prepared to go to court.

    "That is exactly what I said would happen," said Councilwoman Barb Watters. She said she warned the city when it accepted the Ten Commandments statue that the city risked other monuments advocating anti-Semitism and hatred of other minorities.

    ''I think the hate language will find a very cold reception in this community,'' councilor Paul Bertoglio said. ''I think this community's backbone is going to come up and say 'We are not going to accept it.'''

    The city council is looking at several options, one is fighting Phelps in court, another is moving the Ten Commandments out of the park, and yet another proposal would be to sell the land the park is on.

    Phelps says he doesn't care what the city decides. If he is unable to put the statue in City Park he said he will find another location in the city.

    During Shepard's funeral members of Phelps' Westoboro Baptist Church demonstrated in front of the chapel.


    question: what evidence is there that it's God's warning and not the warning of a man?
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 8, 2003 #2
    Always nice to see a true Christian in action, isn't it?
  4. Oct 8, 2003 #3
    reminds me of the guy recently executed for killing an abortion doctor who justified his action on his religious beliefs (which, i think, is christianity). i'm sure how this person could misinterpreted the statement, "thou shall not kill."

    the bible may have said to not be homosexual.

    i'll get around to finding this just for fun, but as i recall, it also says somewhere that beating your children is ok when they're out of line. there may also be something about a man owning his wife.

    i'm not so sure everything in the bible can be taken as words straight out of God's mouth but rather as things that have been lost in translation (from God to man).
  5. Oct 8, 2003 #4
    That's why I called him a true Christian...he isn't all wishy-washy like you, he is following the true word and spirit of Christianity.
  6. Oct 8, 2003 #5
    what does wishy-washy mean?
  7. Oct 8, 2003 #6
    This is what I mean:
    The Bible preaches that God hates rather large groups of people, and good Christians should hate them too, and kill them where appropriate.
  8. Oct 8, 2003 #7
    where is stated that God hates anyone?

    where is it hatred advocated?
  9. Oct 8, 2003 #8
    Well he sure as hell wants lots and lots of people dead, huh? All that rage and wrath and what-not...Genocide by the Jews, killing some witches, disobedient children, gay people, everyone on earth but Noah that one time, everyone but lot and his sexy incestuous lovers from Sodom and Gomorrah...
  10. Oct 8, 2003 #9
    the two questions remain unanswered.

    if God wants people dead, which isn't clearly evidenced to me by what any text may or may not suggest, it is up to it to decide when and where to carry that out, not us. it's not clear to me that God *wants* anything because wanting something suggests incompleteness, contradicting the completeness of God. that's not to suggest God doesn't act, just that the actions are not want-derivated.
  11. Oct 8, 2003 #10
    Yeah, justify all you like, but the Bible preaches HATE, and true Christians express hate as often as possible. Maybe you should read the Bible.
  12. Oct 8, 2003 #11
    where is hate preached in the bible? i have an electronic version of the king james bible and i searched for hate but there are lots of occurances. so far, none of them suggest that anyone or any group should be hated.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2003
  13. Oct 8, 2003 #12
    Start about 12 pages in, and read through to the end.
  14. Oct 8, 2003 #13
    can you give one example?
  15. Oct 8, 2003 #14
    Do you suggest that the Bible says that you should love all teh people who God instructs you to kill?
  16. Oct 8, 2003 #15
    can you give one example, from page 12 onward, where hate is preached?

    can you give one example where God explicitly gives the instruction to kill?

    jesus said to love thy neighbor as thyself. it is also written to love even thy enemy.
  17. Oct 8, 2003 #16
    Jesus was a hippie...God wants just about everyone dead, except good Jews, apparently...I'm sure that carries on to Christians too.
  18. Oct 8, 2003 #17
    that isn't an answer to either question so i'm not sure where you're getting the statement "God wants just about everyone dead." where are you getting this statement?

    again, God does not want anything because that would suggest incompleteness which would contradict the fact that God is complete.

    if God wanted just about everyone dead, being omnipotent, it would already be the case that just about everyone is dead.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2003
  19. Oct 8, 2003 #18
    Blah blah blah...read your Bible!! You aren't much of a Christian, are you...selectively reading the Bible for the 'feel-good' stuff.

    Let's play a game, shall we? Because the Bible is chock full of God either killing people, telling his followers to treat others like crap, etc...you pick a book of the Bible, and I'll give you an example, ok? And don't give me that stuff about 'Only the New Testament counts", because if that were true, then Christains would stop claiming that passages from the OT are relevant.

    Bring it on!!

    (BTW, I'm an ordained minister, FYI... )
  20. Oct 8, 2003 #19
    I'm just having fun with you, chum...even though I am also right, and I do think you should read teh Bible a little more closely...
  21. Oct 8, 2003 #20
    i don't care if you're an ordained minister.

    the bible should be selectively read because it's not always written by people free of ego taint.

    can you give one example in Genesis where hate is preached?

    can you give one example in Genesis where God explicitly gives the instruction to kill?
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