More AT&T spying allegation

  • #1
Ivan Seeking
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For Your Eyes Only?

This week, NOW reports on new evidence suggesting the existence of a secret government program that intercepts millions of private e-mails each day in the name of terrorist surveillance. News about the alleged program came to light when a former AT&T employee, Mark Klein, blew the whistle on what he believes to be a large-scale installation of secret Internet monitoring equipment deep inside AT&T's San Francisco office. The equipment, he contends, was created at the request of the U.S. government to spy on e-mail traffic across the entire Internet. Though the government and AT&T refuse to address the issue directly, Klein backs up his charges with internal company documents and personal photos.

Criminal Defense Lawyer Nancy Hollander, who represents several Muslim-Americans, feels her confidential e-mails are anything but secure. "I've personally never been afraid of my government until now. And now I feel personally afraid that I could be locked up tomorrow," she told NOW.

Who might be eyeing the hundreds of millions of e-mails Americans send out each day, and to what end? [continued with video of segment]
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/307/index.html

This is just more of the same. If these guys are doing what it appears that they are doing, I want heads to roll and the conspirators jailed.

Even attorney client privilege is not protected? I want to see that one justified in front of the Supreme Court. If true, this is nothing less than an enemy attack on the American people and the Constitution.
 
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  • #2
turbo
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http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/307/index.html

This is just more of the same. If these guys are doing what it appears that they are doing, I want heads to roll and the conspirators jailed.

Even attorney client privilege is not protected? I want to see that one justified in front of the Supreme Court. If true, this is nothing less than an enemy attack on the American people and the Constitution.
Josef Stalin is smiling at the successes of Bush, Cheney, and their neocon cohort.
 
  • #3
Hurkyl
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Josef Stalin is smiling at the successes of Bush, Cheney, and their neocon cohort.
I didn't watch the video: did it really say that? I'm glad I didn't waste my time, then.
 
  • #4
Gokul43201
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That was "originally posted by turbo-1", not by PBS-Now. C'mon hurkyl; you can distinguish between the report and the reaction!
 
  • #5
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I saw this tonight on pbs, rather sad that its come to this.
 
  • #6
Hurkyl
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That was "originally posted by turbo-1", not by PBS-Now. C'mon hurkyl; you can distinguish between the report and the reaction!
And if it's purely a reaction, then it's a rather fallacious one. I'd rather not make that assumption immediately, even though it's the most plausible hypothesis.
 
  • #7
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http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/307/index.html

This is just more of the same. If these guys are doing what it appears that they are doing, I want heads to roll and the conspirators jailed.

Even attorney client privilege is not protected? I want to see that one justified in front of the Supreme Court. If true, this is nothing less than an enemy attack on the American people and the Constitution.
Ivan, use PGP then even if they are doing this they wont be able to decrypt your emails.

As they say an unencrypted email is like a post card
 
  • #8
The secret service do that over here as well, in fact they've been doing it since the technology existed, I'd be surprised if most countries don't do something similar, including monitoring phone calls for key words etc.

The difference is "we" don't know about it. It's not a breach of our civil rights because they secret service does not have to disclose its operations, and neither do we have those civil rights anyway.:smile: Big Brother is watching you...

Go out and buy a copy of Catcher in the Rye, then make a phone call talking about a) drugs b)terror c) Islam or all three; then send several emails with the words dirty nuke, high explosives and I hate the Kufir, preferably if you could write or speak in Arabic as well that would be neat too. Brighten up an otherwise dull civil servants day:tongue2: :biggrin:
 
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  • #9
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Anttech what is pgp?
 
  • #10
turbo
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Anttech what is pgp?
Pretty Good Privacy is an encryption program.
 
  • #11
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My biggest problem with this and other multi billion dollar so called security programs is that there is no guarantee that they do anything other than enrich the companies to whom the jobs are contracted.

The VISIT program is a good example.

WASHINGTON — The Department of Homeland Security's program for identifying illegal immigrants and terrorists is unable to locate foreign nationals inside the U.S. or determine if they ever leave the country, a senior homeland-security official said Friday.
The DHS's $1.7 billion United States Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology (US-VISIT) program is responsible for documenting all foreign travelers through use of fingerprints and digital photographs, as well as checking their names against criminal records and watch lists of suspected terrorists.

Started in January 2004, US-VISIT has succeeded in recording the arrivals of travelers in the U.S., said Robert Mocny, the program's acting director.
But Mocny acknowledged in testimony before members of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Homeland Security that US-VISIT still is unable to determine when, or if, visitors leave the country, a goal set for the program at its creation.
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/169664 [Broken]
 
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  • #12
Evo
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First, it's only AT&T Worldnet e-mail servers. AT&T doesn't have the ability to do this across the internet.

Use PGP if you're woried.
 
  • #13
Ivan Seeking
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I'm worried about my Constitution and my country, not my emails.
 
  • #14
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Me, I'm just waiting for the installation of vidcams at every intersection, in every school classroom, and meeting halls everywhere.

The one thing I lose sleep over is the future of the net. Once access to all but mainstream sites either costs a premium or occurs at a crawl, than our one gleaming hope for the future is dashed. I personally believe that preserving the net is our top priority.
 
  • #15
Ivan Seeking
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I also believe that the internet, and above all, a free flowing internet, is a key component in achieving world peace. Google's cop-out in China really ****** me off.
 
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  • #16
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I also believe that the internet, and above all, a free flowing internet, is a key component in achieving world peace. Google's cop-out in China really ****** me off.
Agreed so how to keep it free from political and economic forces is the issue. In a worst case scenario where wire based access, becomes restricted, I suppose we could all install dishes, but its the same problem all over again: 97% of the pop has access to an extension of corporate media, and see no reason to expand their options. The remainder talk to ourselves. I'd like to see this become a major campaign issue for 2008. Have no idea how.
 
  • #17
Evo
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The internet is a large group of "for profit" telecom carriers that all interconnect to allow what appears to be a worlwide "internet".

Truth is, if one or more of these global carriers were to decide to drop out, the internet would collapse. This isn't a government subsidized computer network. This is private industry allowing this.

Now they adhere to some guidelines, but they can just decide to pull out at any time. Thousands of smaller ISP's have dropped out at one time or another stranding their customers without internet access.
I'm personally against Verizon and AT&T's greedy push to try to get end users to double pay for certain types of internet access.

Will they cut off home users and just deal with commercial users, maybe. Some companies like Level 3 have already made that decision, they only go after large business to business accounts.
 
  • #18
devil-fire
Ivan, use PGP then even if they are doing this they wont be able to decrypt your emails.

As they say an unencrypted email is like a post card
i assumed that most of the companies in the usa that make encryption software gave back-door access to national intelligence or security agencies like NSA anyway. i cant see bush allowing an american company produce encryption software that would let terrorists co-ordinate over e-mail
 
  • #19
devil-fire
(off topic)

I also believe that the internet, and above all, a free flowing internet, is a key component in achieving world peace. Google's cop-out in China really ****** me off.
everyone gave google a hard time for not taking a moral stand for free speech, but yet there are thousands of companies that consider the bottom line before any moral implications and thats just considered the way business is done. the sale of small arms to third world countries is often a vary shady business, but who cares?
 
  • #20
turbo
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the sale of small arms to third world countries is often a vary shady business, but who cares?
Yes, and we should remember that "small arms" generally equates (at a minimum) to fully automatic shoulder-fired weapons with a high rate of fire. As long as they are in other countries, they are "small arms" but if they are in the US, they are really nasty, bad MACHINE GUNS (in big bold type). Our government reserves to itself (with few, highly regulated, expensive exceptions) the right to possess such weapons, while exporting mines, rocket-propelled grenades, cluster bombs, etc all over the world. Apparently, US citizens are not to be trusted, although Swiss nationals of military-service age are required to keep fully-automatic rifles and ammunition in their homes.... hmmm.
 
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  • #21
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i assumed that most of the companies in the usa that make encryption software gave back-door access to national intelligence or security agencies like NSA anyway. i cant see bush allowing an american company produce encryption software that would let terrorists co-ordinate over e-mail
You assume wrong, its a open sourced method of using Asymmetrical encryption on email, and finally it wasnt developed in your country!

NSA cant crack asymmetrical encryption

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_key_encryption
 
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  • #22
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Truth is, if one or more of these global carriers were to decide to drop out, the internet would collapse.
I dont think any telco has that power. The internet is dynamic, if one teleco pulls out, the IP routing tables would reconverge and new paths would appear. It was part of the remit of TCP/IP when it was being developed by the DOD, and especially the BGP routing protocol.

If you want more technical information on how and why this happens, feel free to ask.
 
  • #23
Evo
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I dont think any telco has that power. The internet is dynamic, if one teleco pulls out, the IP routing tables would reconverge and new paths would appear. It was part of the remit of TCP/IP when it was being developed by the DOD, and especially the BGP routing protocol.

If you want more technical information on how and why this happens, feel free to ask.
If a MAJOR carrier in a country were to pull out, there would be a MAJOR disruption. New peering agreements would need to be arranged, peering is where one ISP hands off traffic to another ISP, without this, internet user A can't connect to user B, a lot of smaller ISP's that resell access through the major carrier would completely lose access to the internet. This is exactly what happened when Level 3 cut off Cogent. Luckily Cogent is tiny.

"According to CEO Dave Schaeffer, both Cogent Communications and Level 3 remain in compliance with the peering agreement. But as of several days ago, no traffic has been traded between the two networks, cutting off customers that rely on a direct connection between Level 3 and Cogent (Karl Bode of Broadband Reports points out that you can read Cogent's side of the story here, with regular updates).

In our opinion, peering agreements are handshake deals that stitch the Internet together, subject to the whim of the parties to each agreement. A broken peering agreement severs the internet, threatening the foundation of the Internet economy. These handshake deals show why lawyers are an important part of business—it's their job to plan ahead for problems when negotiating a deal. We believe that many peering agreements were not written by lawyers."


http://www.isp-planet.com/business/2005/cogent_level_3.html [Broken]

Not only would new peering agreements need to be arranged to re-route traffic around the break, but the major ISP's also own public and private NAPs (buidlings where the backbone routers allow the different carriers to exchange traffic.) The bottlenecks caused by losing a major portion of the internet backbone would slow the internet to a crawl in the affected country or countries.

It's unlikely that a MAJOR carrier would pull out suddenly, because they make too much money, they're more likely to get their way though.

I work for one of the largest Internet Backbone providers, if you want more technical information, feel free to ask. :wink:
 
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  • #24
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If a MAJOR carrier in a country were to pull out, there would be a MAJOR disruption. New peering agreements would need to be arranged, peering is where one ISP hands off traffic to another ISP, without this, internet user A can't connect to user B, a lot of smaller ISP's that resell access through the major carrier would completely lose access to the internet. This is exactly what happened when Level 3 cut off Cogent. Luckily Cogent is tiny.
BGP protocol is *how* telco's communicate IP routes to different AS's all that would happen is that bgp would reconverge as i explain already. A disruption and the *internet collapsing* are two very different things. If level 3 shut up shop, BT would take over simple as that.

"According to CEO Dave Schaeffer, both Cogent Communications and Level 3 remain in compliance with the peering agreement. But as of several days ago, no traffic has been traded between the two networks, cutting off customers that rely on a direct connection between Level 3 and Cogent (Karl Bode of Broadband Reports points out that you can read Cogent's side of the story here, with regular updates).

In our opinion, peering agreements are handshake deals that stitch the Internet together, subject to the whim of the parties to each agreement. A broken peering agreement severs the internet, threatening the foundation of the Internet economy. These handshake deals show why lawyers are an important part of business—it's their job to plan ahead for problems when negotiating a deal. We believe that many peering agreements were not written by lawyers."
Thats management BS, "severs the internet" thats funny, of course there would be a black hole in the BGP routing table for an hour or two, but that is all. Maybe in America use use static routes, and no redundancy between AS's but the rest of the world doesnt.

I know who you work for and what you do as you have told us many times, however I'll stick to Cisco for my technical info, but hey thanks for the offer :rofl:

The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) is an interautonomous system routing protocol. An autonomous system is a network or group of networks under a common administration and with common routing policies. BGP is used to exchange routing information for the Internet and is the protocol used between Internet service providers (ISP). Customer networks, such as universities and corporations, usually employ an Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) such as RIP or OSPF for the exchange of routing information within their networks. Customers connect to ISPs, and ISPs use BGP to exchange customer and ISP routes. When BGP is used between autonomous systems (AS), the protocol is referred to as External BGP (EBGP). If a service provider is using BGP to exchange routes within an AS, then the protocol is referred to as Interior BGP (IBGP). Figure 39-1 illustrates this distinction.
http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/cisintwk/ito_doc/bgp.htm [Broken]
 
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  • #25
Evo
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You don't understand peering do you? :rolleyes:

BGP won't work if a physical connection is shut off and there is no connection for that ISP. Why do you think the customers lost internet access? Why do you think AOL had to negotiate another provider for the Roadrunner customers connected through Cogent?
 

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