# More Millennial households in the US are in poverty

Staff Emeritus
2019 Award
Because in an extreme case I can park the car, call the loaner and say "Come pick up your car, Im done with it."
In the US, if you do this, you still owe the money. It is true that subsidized student loans are not dischargable by bankruptcy. However, as a practical matter I don't think it matters: car loans and student loans have essentially the same default rate: 11% vs 10%,

How dare me! It's been literally hours! Don't I have anything better to do!

In any event, I think the more germane response was that nitsuj had an expectation that a particular college degree would entitle him to a given future income, and that didn't happen. There was a famous 2008 US News and World Report article claiming the Net Present Value of a college degree was - on average - $300,000. The key to that is - on average - as they say "your mileage my vary". WWGD Science Advisor Gold Member 2019 Award In the US, if you do this, you still owe the money. It is true that subsidized student loans are not dischargable by bankruptcy. However, as a practical matter I don't think it matters: car loans and student loans have essentially the same default rate: 11% vs 10%, How dare me! It's been literally hours! Don't I have anything better to do! . I thought you were including my post in your comment, and the same applied to me, i.e., it had only been hours. EDIT: There is the additional issue, to being able to benefit from the car right away --without having to wait some 4 years -- of the fact that the amount of energy needed to benefit from owning a car (e.g., oil changes, pumping gas, occasional wash ) is nothing in comparison to the amount of effort needed to obtain the degree: attending classes, studying, writing papers, etc. Last edited: WWGD Science Advisor Gold Member 2019 Award <Snip> I have no idea why an effort isn't made to do anything about it. It is being made, but not fast enough nor with enough resources. Some institutions ( schools, here) are both more resistant to change and slower to adapt. I was stating in another post that I worked for an organization one of whose goals was precisely that, but it was a bootstrap operation. I enjoyed working towards goals like this one , but at the end the boss was too much of a #$% and I quit.( Worse of all, when changes do happen, they are often the wrong ones, like adopting PCs in classrooms, whose benefits have not materialized; there is something to having to write things down, visualize them on your own, instead of doing an online search. At least at this age and developmental level.). This is one of the essential problems nowadays, when the rate of change outpaces the ability of existing institutions to adapt. Check out, e.g., Future Schock, presciently written in 1970 by Alvin Toffler ( who , sadly, died in 2016). Interestingly, to tie all topics here together, I wrote a paper on this book in college (1990s)

WWGD
Gold Member
2019 Award
No - got nothing.

But I did trade shares on the side for a while - that is a very financially illuminating experience. Don't do it now - I saw too much 'light' - although I still subscribe to a newsletter on a certain trading method based on momentum simply out of interest.

The only financial book I trust after that experience is one very old and out of print by a guy called Austin Donnerly:
https://www.fishpond.com.au/Books/Sensible-Share-Investing-Austin-Donnelly/9781875857159

It works on a very well known scientific principle - regression to the mean - in investing circles sometimes called contrarian investing. Buy when people are scared and selling like crazy - sell when they are buying everything is sight. How to you determine which is which - simple run a line of linear regression through the market index - if its way below the mean - buy - way above - sell. Actually you do it in stages - a bit below - buy a bit more - a lot below - buy a lot more and conversely. Above and below the line of regression is divided into zones for that purpose.

Thanks
Bill
There are other techniques, AFAIK, like knowbots using ML ( Sentiment Analysis ) going over blogs , counting and weighing key words denoting "Irrational Exuberance" , Panic , or in-betweens ( Not as many opportunities).

WWGD
In any event, I think the more germane response was that nitsuj had an expectation that a particular college degree would entitle him to a given future income, and that didn't happen. There was a famous 2008 US News and World Report article claiming the Net Present Value of a college degree was - on average - $300,000. The key to that is - on average - as they say "your mileage my vary". https://duckduckgo.com/?q=flaw+of+averages+definition&t=hf&atb=v88-7&ia=web There is a book by this actual name. It details cases where considering only the average value created problems, like the case of expeditions to the Arctic circle who chose to take a certain number of coats to their expeditions based on the average duration of a coat. No consideration for spread, nor for which type of error : too many or too few, would be worse in that case :https://www.amazon.com/dp/047138197...dev=c&ref=pd_sl_u631s0pie_b&tag=pfamazon01-20 nitsuj had an expectation that a particular college degree would entitle him to a given future income, and that didn't happen. lol entitle me to a given future income? Err no, that's not education. that's experience. google the definition of entitled...your suggestive comment doesn't even make sense. What's more it has "happened", after an amount of time that experience is the increase in my pay; thought that point was clear. It didn't get me in at a higher pay tier. I didn't say i was entitled to anything, I implied I wasn't treated as fairly as a business entity. And that experience improves income over time. Education slots one into an income level after grad.....accounting diploma low end start salary not enough to pay monies loaned. I do feel entitled to be treated the same as a business entity with respect to such a loan. In which case loaning me the money in the first place probably wouldn't have happened or to mitigate loaner risk be guided towards a less risky/more profitable endeavor by a "professional", either way... win win It is true that subsidized student loans are not dischargable by bankruptcy. However, as a practical matter I don't think it matters: car loans and student loans have essentially the same default rate: 11% vs 10%, When it goes to "default" its with respect to the loan agreement which means it can go to court and the law (a judge decides) what should become of the debt. In the case of a car, I can put it on the bankruptcy list and have the debt extinguished. That cannot be done with a student loan, the loan still exists and is owed and has defaulted....in such a case the judge is to permise income source deductions / bank withdrawals. However it's my understanding while strict do consider circumstances, particularly for health/disability reasons. By law one who is not employed cannot be "sued" for the student loan. Ontario, CAN laws. The likeness of the default rates tells me my argument is legitimate. Student loan debtors are not simply deciding they don't want to repay, they want to repay the debt equally to car loan debtors who can extinguish the debt through bankruptcy. Last edited: The average student loan is$30,000. The average new car loan is also about \$30,000 (and there are many more of them, even when restricted to 18-34s). Why is the former a crisis, but the latter not?