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Mr. Bush: Watch the jobs go

  1. Oct 12, 2004 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    Well, Bush economics [including his fathers] has hit pretty close to home. One of my biggest customers [historically], and a one hundred old Portland company has gone south - all the way to Mexico. Oh, the corporate owners will still make money, but five hundred highly skilled workers are effectively doomed - most are already gone.

    Under the Bush plan, they will enjoy their new jobs as Walmart greeters and stockers.
    They will be employed, according to Bush. :rolleyes:
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 12, 2004 #2

    GENIERE

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    And Kerry's plan is to stop this by ...?
     
  4. Oct 12, 2004 #3

    Ivan Seeking

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    See his web site. Johnkerry.com

    It is exactly like Ross Perot said, "that giant sucking sound will be jobs leaving the country".

    The legacy of the Bush dynasty: The death of US industry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2004
  5. Oct 12, 2004 #4
    Gee wiz, it was Bush who came up with NAFTA, right?

    Anyway, it sicken me to see so many idiots blame a president for loss of Jobs or give credit for new jobs.

    There is VERY little a president can do to create or lose jobs. Too bad so many people have very little common sense.

    On another note, Bush inherited a recession or at least a declining economy...

    I really wish we had another candidate to vote for though because Bush is a religious fanatic and Kerry a communist.

    Its a shame.

    Max
     
  6. Oct 12, 2004 #5

    chroot

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    I'm considering leaving the country voluntarily if Bush is re-elected.

    - Warren
     
  7. Oct 12, 2004 #6

    GENIERE

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    Wasn't there an actor who...?
     
  8. Oct 12, 2004 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    That's what Tsu keeps saying.

    I keep reminding her that Hawaii is not another country :biggrin:
     
  9. Oct 12, 2004 #8

    Kerrie

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    "W" stands for "wrong"...

    Although it is easy for us to place direct blame on the president, we also need to consider that the American worker does require a much higher wage for jobs in general. China and Mexico are taking US manufacturing jobs because they don't require such high wages. This is fact. What I think should be done is higher taxes to corporations who outsource jobs, and tax incentives to those who take a hit in the American Payroll, but do their part in keeping our country's people employed. Just curious Ivan, can you say which company it is? Maybe it's one of my customers :)
     
  10. Oct 12, 2004 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    I can't say publicly but I will PM you. Please do not repeat the name though.
     
  11. Oct 12, 2004 #10
    I believe in a free market economy and I believe people desrve a salary they and the emplyer agree upon. That is all.

    To dictate to the private sector how much to pay employyes is to implement communism by proxy.
     
  12. Oct 12, 2004 #11

    Ivan Seeking

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    Ross Perot told us that this would happen. It was a core issue of his campaign. He told us that Bush economics would destroy US industry. Kerry intends to address this issue.

    Bush argues that Taco Bell Register Operator is gainful employment.

    Edit: I misread Kerries post. :redface: Same point still.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2004
  13. Oct 12, 2004 #12
    So you're for abolishing child-labor laws, minimum wage laws, laws regulating the amount of hours someone can work, workers unions, laws enforcing safe work places etc? All these things were set in place by Socialists when unrestrained capitalism started employing 5 year olds to work in coal mines for 14 hours a day, would you be for a 1910 style capitalistic society?
     
  14. Oct 12, 2004 #13
    I am for a free market economy, yes.
     
  15. Oct 12, 2004 #14
    Yeah, we tried that, it failed and people's rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness were infringed upon by corporations that were only interested in making a profit.

    If corporations decide wages they pay, they'll all collectively pay next to nothing and keep people in a constant state of poverty so they'll have to work for their entire waking lives and never have any substantial amount of money. This happened, people in the past saw it's downfalls, and they adjusted the system accordingly (to a degree). I believe you can find some nice free-market economies in places like Thailand and Bangladesh if you want.

    Are you really so ideological as to think that 1 system and 1 system alone can work perfectly, and not see the value of mixing and matching the best of many different systems of doing things to make one better than all other pure economic systems?
     
  16. Oct 12, 2004 #15
    I don't believe any system can work "perfectly" because I don't believe in perfection.

    As for your "wage" concern, as the wages keep going up the value of the dollar keeps going down. I find it ironic that anyone with half a brain thinks government enforced wages is a good thing. Making things more expensive is not the answer but I can't expect socialists to understand economics.
     
  17. Oct 12, 2004 #16
    You're ignoring the reality of what happened directly after the industrial revolution all over the world. People were poor, had poor work conditions, lived in slums, worked for much longer hours than they currently do and had much lower standards of living. 5 year olds worked 14 hours a day in coal mines and died of black-lung before reaching their thirty's if they weren't killed in horrible accidents on the job. This is the reality of Capitalism without government restrictions. Hell, it's not even aincent history that people have forgotten the flaws of, it's going on now all around the world in countries like Indonesia and Thailand, why don't you go to one of those countries if you value a totally free-market economy so much, and why haven't these free-market systems you seem to love so much overrun America with it's socialist elements? It's becuase America's addition of socialistic elements to it's capitalism are what kept it from a full on communist revolution, and our specific blend is what's kept America the economic power it is today.

    However, I'm making a moot point, us "socialists" can't expect laissez faire capitalists to undestand concepts like caring for the greater good, fairness or value for things other than money in general.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2004
  18. Oct 12, 2004 #17
    And since the new laws in the US "the world" has changed and there are no more 5 year olds working 14 hours a day? get over it.

    There are 18 times more slaves in the world today since socialism has infested so many nations.

    The quality of life has not improved in the US for anyone except for the parsites the welfare supports.

    You socialists claimed imcreasing minimum wage would improve the lives of millions. It has not. Minimum wage was raised and misser y raised in parallel because the dollar was devalued and things became more expensive. Energy costs have gone up, sewer costs in cities have gone up, labor costs have gone up. You cannot improve the lives of people by increasing the costs of labor.

    What you end up doing is you hurt the local economy because foreign countries can produce the same products cheaper thus loss of jobs here.

    1+1=2. Very simple stuff.
     
  19. Oct 12, 2004 #18
    Did I say that? No. But there are no more 5 year olds working 14 hours a day in the USA, they're all in other countries doing the work that people like you want to be done for cheap.
    Get it straight, I'm not a socialist, I'm in favor of Capitalism with reasonable restrictions, such as those the American government has on them now. Of course countries such as the USSR and China have done the same crappy things that happened in the early 1900's, I'm not defending them.

    If you really think that the quality of life for the average American isn't better in 2004 than it was in 1904, there's just something fundamentally wrong with your grasp of history and reality.

    Go read something about America in the wake of the industrial revolution, if you don't think that the reforms that were brought about around the 30's improved the quality of life for people, you just have a fundamental misundestdanding of history.

    So we should reduce our standards of labor to those of Mexico? Great idea, go propose it to anyone who works in a factory and I'm sure they'll see your cool, level-headed reasoning as totally logical and a great idea.

    You sure it's not 2+2=5?
     
  20. Oct 12, 2004 #19
    You are mixing apples and oranges. Yes, life is better because of new technologies and drugs not because of government regulations.

    Since the minimum wage was implemented the number of peop,e who work for minimum wage has quadrupled and since the minum wage forced the value of the dollar to go lower and the cost of labor to go up there are MORE people living in missery than not.
     
  21. Oct 12, 2004 #20
    Please qualify these ridiculous claims or stop repeating them. How do you define "living in missery", and where do you get your statistics that the majority of Americans are living "in missery"?
     
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