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News Mr. President: Coffins ? Bring Them On! ?

  1. Apr 5, 2004 #1
    Mr. President: "Coffins ? ... Bring Them On!"?

    It's no fun writing a post like this. But I need to make some remarks on the situation in Iraq, I am very concerned. This situation is what many - especially in Europe - feared.
    Sure the Iraq situation is very complex and there is much more to say.

    US (Bush) opened the Pandora's Box. We know the motives to go inside Iraq were false, unlawfull. Now we see that violence is up. This is only the beginning. Now both Sunni's AND Shia's (Shiits) are upset. All point to US. And Bremer says: "Protesters have crossed the line and moved to violence. We (USA) will not tolerate that."

    I have the impression US-strategists believed Iraqis could be manipulated as easy as the US-Television society. But it's not. It's a completely different culture and related perception of reality and time. The actual violence is not on TV, it's on the streets and friends or relatives are victims. Shooting on crowds isn't the correct way and makes the problem felt personal.

    The political power in Iraq may now be different and softer than under Saddam but now it is controlled by non-believers, alien Crusaders mentally linked to Israel. That's how normal Iraqi percept their situation. Just like Bush speaks every day with God, these people do. Both God's give although another message.
    Iraq is not waiting for Bremer's idea's and hidden agenda, be sure that the majority believes that a solution must be conform basic Islamic ideas.

    Bremer may name-calling today local religious leaders 'outlaws' (like Sadr) but the US-occupation itself was out of International Law and crossed many lines.
    Bremer said: ""We have a difficult security situation. We have a group under Moqtada al-Sadr that has basically placed itself outside the legal authorities, the coalition and Iraqi officials," said Bremer, head of the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority."
    "Effectively he is attempting to establish his authority in the place of the legitimate authority. We will not tolerate this," he said.

    What makes Bremer's authorities legal? The power of force? The Will of USA?
    What makes the coalition legal? The power of force? The manipulations by USA?
    What makes Bremer's Iraqi officials legal? The power of force? The parachuted friends of USA?

    For sure I don't agree which the idea's and actions of al-Sadr but he has more legitimate rights than Bremer to think about the future of HIS country. If we like it or not.

    Bremer has yet no other logic choice - and forced by the events - but reacting hard. That will give more attacks and violence of both sides.
    Cynical questions: Will Bremer start to build around Falluja, Basra, Naja, ... Israel-type of 'fences' (an exciting new expensive project for Cheney's friends)? A fence around Al-Sadr's HQ like Israel did with Arafat? Will Bremer tell us this week that 40-50% of Iraq's are terrorists? What if Iraqis start to make giant human sit-in fences and block all roads for military? Tear-gas, ..., risk of man-to-man situations?
    Will Bremer let rocket the outlaw Sadr, or will Sadr be eliminated in a more subtle way by a simple but fanatic suiciding Sunni?

    I think US should try urgently to get UN into this increasing out-of-control situation. If the handing over of sovereignty on 30 June may not by appropriate, then power should go to UN (just like Spain asks now).
    If US just reacts on the violence by counter-violence and doesn't offer a credible neutral solution via UN (thus involving other Islamic and Middle-East States too) I fear that every US and 'collision' soldier (and 'civilians', mostly mercenaries) will be the religious targets for 30 to 40% of the Iraq population. Vietnam was a cold political war with a single goal ... Iraq becomes an emotional religious war with many internally divided parties but with a single 'visual' enemy ... and that will mean much, more, much more body bags if US keeps following the road of the lonely World Texas Ranger. I am however pessimistic. Probably the hidden agenda forces US to keep full military and economic control for next five year. US don't want to share real power with countries like Germany, France, Russia, ...

    So will this Mr. President new one-liner: "Coffins ? ... Bring Them On!"?.
    It all depends of Mr. Bush himself ... and of course of his talks with God.

    RealOne Radio spot of BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/audio/40003000/rm/_40003881_iraq_khazaali.ram

    U.S. Helicopters Attack Targets in Baghdad

    BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) - Fresh fighting between U.S. forces and Shi'ite militiamen erupted in a Baghdad neighborhood Monday, with two Apache helicopters firing on targets in the area, Reuters journalists at the scene said.

    A U.S. vehicle was also in flames in the area, a predominantly Shi'ite neighborhood.

    Sunday, fighting in another Shi'ite area of Baghdad, the impoverished Sadr City district, claimed the lives of at least 28 Iraqis and seven U.S. soldiers.


    US poised to 'pacify' Iraqi town
    US troops have sealed off the Sunni flashpoint town of Falluja where four Americans were killed and their bodies mutilated by a mob last week.
    Unconfirmed reports say fighting has erupted in the town with a US warplane dropping bombs in response to a mortar attack on troops.
    The US command has vowed to "pacify" Falluja, where four civilian contractors were killed on Wednesday.
    Falluja lies in the heartland of resistance to the US-led occupation.

    Shia protests spread to Basra
    Iraqis loyal to a radical Shia Muslim cleric have occupied the governor's office in Basra in protest at coalition actions against their movement.

    About 150 followers of Moqtada Sadr took over the building unopposed to stage what they called a sit-in.
    Sunday saw clashes across Iraq between gunmen loyal to Mr Sadr and coalition forces, with dozens killed or injured.
    'Civil war'
    The US administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, said the protesters in Najaf had "crossed the line" and violence would not be tolerated.
    Two senior US congressmen have warned President George W Bush's administration that Iraq faces the possibility of civil war.
    The Republican and Democratic Party leaders of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Richard Lugar and Joe Biden, said the US should consider postponing the handing over of sovereignty on 30 June.

    But we may not forget that the Iraq war was also to bring more security inside USA? So:


    (04-03-2004) - A warning that terrorists might strike trains and buses in major U.S. cities using bombs concealed in bags or luggage has the nation's transit systems ratcheting up security measures.

    U.S. officials said they had received uncorroborated intelligence reports about a plot by terrorists to target commercial transportation systems but had no information about specific cities or dates.

    http://www.kfmb.com/topstory23866.html [Broken]

    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 5, 2004 #2
    Saturation By Media

    Posted by pelastration;
    “What makes Bremer's authorities legal? The power of force? The Will of USA?
    What makes the coalition legal? The power of force? The manipulations by USA?
    What makes Bremer's Iraqi officials legal? The power of force? The parachuted friends of USA?”

    Saturation by media makes these acts "tolerated" by people who consider the USA above international law.
    It certainly does not make them LEGAL, let alone moral, or dare I say it - SENSIBLE.
    This foreign policy of Bush must have been dreamt up by a preschooler (its just so, so stupid.)
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2004
  4. Apr 6, 2004 #3
    When it is all filtered into their minds by home-grown television, it makes things seem more "right".
  5. Apr 6, 2004 #4
    your question is legitimate, and obviously it's the power of force. It's the Law of the Jungle. I wonder what was truly planned for this operation? Truly the architects didn't seriously wish an Israeli style prison-camp occupation? They certainly wanted "super-bases" in the region for strategic reasons - less dependant on Saudi air bases, they could strike at will and extend the sphere of influence of the US & west. But nobody bothered to plan for what would happen to the Iraqis, and what sort of operation it's supposed to be. People are profiteering off of it, building the super-bases and supporting the military, in theory developing the oil infrastructure, but vast sums of money to not change fundamental facts...
    This war is going to drag Bush into the dirt this fall, and his replacement is going to inherit a very damaged country. Bush is portrayed as a muppet, a front-man for a military/industrial/oil interest, but in the end, he's just the fall-guy.
  6. Apr 14, 2004 #5
    It's not over yet. More coffins coming?

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1081748013042&p=1078113566627 [Broken]

    Abizaid: Syria, Iran involved in Iraq

    Syria and Iran are involved in Iraq, and their involvement is not meant to assist the US-led Coalition there, Gen. John Abizaid, head of U.S. Central Command said Monday.

    Speaking to reporters in Washington via video-link from Baghdad, Abizaid said there were signs that Iran's involvement is not designed to assist US efforts in Iraq.

    Abizaid made the same claim against Syrian involvement in Iraq.

    "We know the Iranians have been meddling, and it's unhelpful to have neighboring countries meddling in the affairs of Iraq," US Secretary of Defense Donald H.

    Like some people seems to be addicted to drug and alcohol, Mr. President, some seems to love the taste of blood.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  7. Apr 14, 2004 #6
    Posted by pelastration;
    "We know the Iranians have been meddling, and it's unhelpful to have neighboring countries meddling in the affairs of Iraq," US Secretary of Defense Donald H.

    I like this quote.
    Allah forbid that "neighbouring" countries would interfere.
    It's fine when you're from a completely separate continent and "sphere of influence", hey Mr Secretary???????
  8. Apr 14, 2004 #7
    Different continent? yes. different sphere of influence? hardly! Not even according to you!
  9. Apr 15, 2004 #8
    Going the tough way ...

    One of the cultural aspects of the Iraq society is the clan structure. When someone dies the clan has the obligation to take revenge.
    It's an important fact to understand why aggression grows.

    When something like this happens ... you know what is coming next.

    Iraqi 'beaten to death' by US troops

    April 14, 2004

    An Iraqi has died of his wounds after US troops beat him with truncheons because he refused to remove a picture of wanted Shiite Muslim leader Moqtada Sadr from his car, police said today.

    The motorist was stopped late yesterday by US troops conducting search operations on a street in the centre of the central city of Kut, Lieutenant Mohamad Abdel Abbas said.

    After the man refused to remove Sadr's picture from his car, the soldiers forced him out of the vehicle and started beating him with truncheons, he said.

    US troops also detained from the same area five men wearing black pants and shirts, the usual attire of Sadr's Mehdi Army militiamen and followers.

    Qassem Hassan, the director of Kut general hospital, identified the man as Salem Hassan, a resident of a Kut suburb.

    He said the man had died of wounds sustained in the beating.

    A spokesman for the US-led coalition could not confirm the incident.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9282015%255E1702,00.html [Broken]

    BTW remember the LA riots when policemen beat that guy?


    Analysis: US 'emulates' Israeli tactics


    With sporadic fighting in Falluja and US forces moving into position outside Najaf, the Arab press is pointing to similarities between US military operations in Iraq and the tactics Israeli forces employ in the West Bank and Gaza.

    Such similarities are not coincidental.

    The Israeli army has long experience of offensive operations in urban areas and it is experience that the Pentagon has been eager to draw upon.

    Israel and the US have developed a close military relationship over the years.

    Two-way exchange

    Israel's armed forces are undergoing a process of transformation similar to that advocated by US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld with the emphasis on lighter, more agile units employing devastating firepower and drawing on a variety of new information and intelligence gathering systems.

    Go to any US military exercise and Israeli observers are much in evidence.

    But the transfer of doctrine and tactics is not just a one-way street.

    US commanders have drawn extensively on Israel's experiences in the West Bank and Gaza Strip for lessons that might be applicable to Iraq.

    Urban trap

    Fighting in urban areas is something that modern armies tend to avoid wherever possible.

    In the low-rise warren of alleys and narrow streets the advantages of technologically sophisticated soldiers are much reduced.

    Even lightly armed opponents with local knowledge can constitute serious opposition.

    And the proximity of civilians adds the risk of significant loss of innocent life and widespread damage to property.

    While many of Israel's methods are controversial it has, in purely military terms, developed highly effective tactics for offensive operations in urban areas along with a range of specialised equipment which, for example, can help troops to breach walls, gather intelligence, and locate snipers.

    The Pentagon has already bought some Israeli equipment. It is planning to buy more.

    And senior US commanders have visited Israel specifically to discuss what the Pentagon jargon calls "Military Operations on Urban Terrain".
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
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