Muggles vs Wizards, who wins?

  • #1

Main Question or Discussion Point

The muggles have the atomic bomb, so I don't think that Voldemort and Dumbledore are capable of handling that.
Muggles are smarter because they rely on their intelligence and imagination to make things happen while the wizards just rely on words.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
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That doesn't make them "smarter", I think, just more adept at innovating. I don't remember any instance where a wizard came up with a "new" spell in the HPverse.

But yeah, the wizards didn't seem to have any weapons of mass destruction. They would have had to fight a guerrilla war, and those are usually long, hard, and costly.

Scenario: A dark wizard does the killing curse on someone in public. Eight or nine muggles pull firearms and waste him.
 
  • #3
Ryan_m_b
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That doesn't make them "smarter", I think, just more adept at innovating. I don't remember any instance where a wizard came up with a "new" spell in the HPverse.
Sectumsempra (had to google for the spelling) was invented by snape as a child, it's the non-verbal spell that slices someone up. Also the Weasley Twins develop all sorts of magical items that they go onto sell in their shop, IIRC some of them were objects that maintained protection spells around the wearer and they were so good the Ministry ordered hundreds.

I'd say that this, plus a few other instances (explicit and implied) show that the wizard world also researches and innovates new magic. Different to muggles sure, but in the HPverse there's a whole extra set of physical laws (magic) that can seemingly only be manipulated by specific people (wizards)

But yeah, the wizards didn't seem to have any weapons of mass destruction. They would have had to fight a guerrilla war, and those are usually long, hard, and costly.
True, except the wizards have a few huge advantages:

1) They already have experience hiding in muggle society (admittedly it may become harder if they are actively hunted)

2) A number of their spells make point 1) easier, like hiding a house between two others on a street or casting a spell that makes muggles want to leave when they enter an area

3) Their offensive magic is extremely capable on a close-quarters setting. A well trained wizard could likely block incoming fire from weapons, disarm multiple opponents, pull them out of cover, mind control/stun/kill them etcetera.

4) Their regular magic would be extremely capable at circumventing muggle military/security doctrine. Specifically they'd make excellent assassins. Pretty much every wizard can teleport virtually anywhere in the world, they also have access to invisibility cloaks. No political or military leader would be safe from a wizard invisibly popping into existence in their bunker and killing them (or placing them under mind control).
 
  • #4
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But was that a "new" spell, or one he found and modified? /splittinghairs.

As for the second part of your post: Explosive vests.
 
  • #5
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A) Imperius.
Take out the leaders of muggle offensive and force a peace treaty.
B)Polyjuice.
Steal identities of the major players who can't be imperio'd
C)Inferius.
Zombie Apocalypse.
D)Transfiguration.
One muggle-born wizard with the knowledge of antimatter to threaten total global annihilation.
E)Fiendfyre
Devastate a city in a single night

Aside from these ridiculously easy ways they could take over the world, technology randomly malfunctions around them. If the wizards went up against the muggles the war would be over before you could say 'Expecto Patronum' thrice (each time as futile as the last).
 
  • #6
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I'd forgotten about Fiendfyre, a passable WMD. Thanks.
 
  • #7
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E)Fiendfyre
Devastate a city in a single night
just to say a nuke could do that in a matter of seconds.
I believe the threat would be posed more by the magical creatures. especially dragons and dementors.
the only full blown battle I can remember in Harry Potter was at the end in Hogwarts and that appears to be relying largely on pre made defences e.g. the stone army. which leads me to believe that in an offensive when they are forced to approach a muggle position they would be torn to shreds as i find it hard to believe even a very powerful wizard would not be able to keep back 3000 bullets in a minuet (rate of fire of a modern mini-gun) so would rely on defence and ambushes.
i don't recall a wizard air-force or any purpose built flying machines (yes i know about the flying car) and so air strikes and mass bombing would force them to keep moving in small bands for fear of a heavy raid. there is no navy the only vessel i can remember was the tall ship that the other school used.
however the wizards would easily have the element of surprise as they can teleport from any fireplace.
 
  • #8
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Durmstrang's galleon had a student operating it, so it can't be that hard. I think the wizards had been limiting themselves so as to keep covert. We haven't seen a wizard war economy or their version of totaler krieg.
 
  • #9
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well i'm only 14 and i can fly a plane
its not as hard as everyone makes it out to be
 
  • #10
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well i'm only 14 and i can fly a plane
its not as hard as everyone makes it out to be
And let's not forget how easy Simon Masrani made flying a helicopter look. ;)
 
  • #11
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great job their arn't so many dinosaurs know
 
  • #12
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D)Transfiguration.
One muggle-born wizard with the knowledge of antimatter to threaten total global annihilation.
If it came to war, I've got a feeling at least some of the muggle-born would side with their families.
 
  • #13
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very good point
 
  • #14
Ryan_m_b
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The issue for a modern police/security/military force in a "war on magic" would be finding the Wizards. Hogwarts, the ministry, diagon alley, platform 9&3/4 all are hidden right in the muggle world but muggles can't even notice them. Hell for the quiditch cup tens of thousands of wizards decend on a single campsite and no one is any wiser. Carpet bombs, tanks, infantry, nukes are all useless if you have no target.

So it would all come down to whether or not muggles could develop technological means of locating, and counteracting, Wizards. Given some of the atrocities committed in the name of the war on terror (e.g torture) it could get very dark and desperate indeed.
 
  • #15
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Would the Dark Wizards side with the muggles just to get rid of the mudbloods?
 
  • #16
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probably not as at least some of the mud bloods would side with their family and freinds
 
  • #17
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probably not as at least some of the mud bloods would side with their family and freinds
"some would" implies "some wouldn't". Remember, Moldywart was a mudblood himself.
 
  • #18
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He wasn't, he was a half-blood (child of a witch and a muggle), not perfect but not as bad as a muggleborn.

Also I'm muggleborn and find the usage of mudblood offensive*


[*] Tongue-in-Cheeck
 
  • #19
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He wasn't, he was a half-blood (child of a witch and a muggle), not perfect but not as bad as a muggleborn.

Also I'm muggleborn and find the usage of mudblood offensive*


[*] Tongue-in-Cheeck
Yeah, been a while since I read the books. Anywho, it's rather unlikely that there would be a clear line of demarcation among the wizards. Harry could have been affected by his time at
 
  • #20
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i would conclude in an all out war the wizards would lose but with sufficient stealth and skill they could crumble governments and crush nations before such a war began.
 
  • #21
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They have experience at going covert, it was be tough to root them out.
 
  • #22
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but if one half-blood or mud blood sided with the muggles then all the secrets would be lost. such as teleportatoin, locatoins how to enter the ministry of magic ect
 
  • #23
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That would be a severe problem, if the turncoat knew all the secrets.
 
  • #24
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well if they were a student they would know platform nine and three quarters which is enough to get into the wizard world
 
  • #25
Ryan_m_b
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Knowing where a place is is different to be able to get somewhere. I'm not convinced that knowing where 9&3/4 is is enough to get to the platform. If anyone could fall through that barrier then dozens of times a day muggles would accidentally fall through trying to lean on a wall. Same goes for Diagon Alley and Hogwarts. The school is a great example of the Wizards being able to hide in plain site because it's a literal castle estate in the countryside that no one has ever accidentally walked into.

A wizard that joins the muggles (voluntarily or otherwise) would be a threat but not a silver bullet. Whilst the muggle authorities would be desperately trying to reverse engineer magic and create tactical responses given their ineffective equipment wizards could be popping in and out of the offices of military/cultural/political leaders and placing them under a mind control curse.
 

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