Munich Shooting

[micromass]

There is currently a big police operation in the German city of Munich due to a shooting. The shooting seems to be the work of one or several extreme right militants who are sick of foreigners in the country.

I'm very worried about the developments of these terrorists attacks in Europe, both by extremist muslims and by their extremist right wing counterpart. This escalation of violence seems to be exactly what ISIS wants. How to stop this...

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-36870986

 

[fresh_42]

There is currently a big police operation in the German city of Munich due to a shooting. The shooting seems to be the work of one or several extreme right militants who are sick of foreigners in the country.

I'm very worried about the developments of these terrorists attacks in Europe, both by extremist muslims and by their extremist right wing counterpart. This escalation of violence seems to be exactly what ISIS wants. How to stop this...

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-36870986

Right wing extremists wouldn't have shouted Allahu Akhbar. Edit: eye witness on a phone on CNN.
BBC is a awful source for news when it is about Germany. Far too manipulating.

 

[micromass]

It is reported that one of the attackers has shouted "Scheiss Auslander". Doesn't seem very much in line with islamic terrorism.

 

[fresh_42]

It is reported that one of the attackers has shouted "Scheiss Auslander". Doesn't seem very much in line with islamic terrorism.

That was a bystander shouting out of his apartment to an armed man he saw on a roof (smart phone video on CNN). As I said, BBC.

 

[russ_watters]

It is reported that one of the attackers has shouted "Scheiss Auslander". Doesn't seem very much in line with islamic terrorism.

Where is that reported?

This would be a very unusual MO for anti-foreigner violence.

A witness who will only be identified as Lauretta told CNN her son was in a bathroom with a shooter at the McDonald's. "That's where he loaded his weapon," she said. "I hear like an alarm and boom, boom, boom... And he's still killing the children. The children were sitting to ear. They can't run." Lauretta said she heard the gunman say, "Allahu Akbar," or God is great. "I know this because I'm Muslim. I hear this and I only cry."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/europe/germany-munich-shooting/index.html

 

[micromass]

Where is that reported?

This would be a very unusual MO for anti-foreigner violence. See:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/europe/germany-munich-shooting/index.html

The Munich police has said there is no indication with islamic terrorism though. I have not yet read any reputable source that there is islamic extremism involved. Sure, I agree that my original post is wrong as well, but that was the information I had at the moment.

 

[fresh_42]

I admit it's still not clear what kind of violence it was. A "normal" rampage could be ruled out for there have been at least three perpetrators. The "allahu akbar" shout could have been done to fog the police but usually right wing idiots aren't very smart. Plus they "normally" use pipe bombs placed in crowded places like on the Oktoberfest (1980). And it's simply unlikely that right wing idiots attack a McDonald's - hence not impossible.

 

[George Jones]

Where is that reported?

This would be a very unusual MO for anti-foreigner violence.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/europe/germany-munich-shooting/index.html

The BBC TV news about 30 minutes ago, which I watched live, reported that a gunman was overheard saying something about foreigners. The BBC also pointed out that five years ago today, the Anders Breivik attack in Norway happened,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

The situation is still too confused to say what kind of terrorism was involved, and how many gunmen participated. It certainly is possible that there were multiple gunmen (as seems to be indicated by video), but initial reports of multiple gunmen from Baton Rouge, Dallas, and Ottawa all turned out to be incorrect.

EDIT: from the BBC website

"Witness Luan Zequiri said he was at the scene when the shooting broke out. He tells the Germany broadcaster n-tv that he heard the attacker yell an anti-foreigner slur.

He says he saw only one attacker, who was wearing boots and a backpack.

He says he looked in the direction of the attacker, who shot two people on the stairs. He hid in a shop, then ran outside when the coast was clear and saw bodies of the dead and wounded on the ground."

Impossible to gauge the reliability of this witness.

 

[micromass]

A ninth dead body have been found wearing clothes which matches that of the gunman.

 

[fresh_42]

The BBC TV news about 30 minutes ago, which I watched live, reported that a gunman was overheard saying something about foreigners.

Yes, he said he was German to a man shouting nasty anti-foreigner stuff at him out of his apartment. (see #2 and #4). When it's about Germany I'd rather rely on what the Sun prints than what BBC broadcasts.

 

[russ_watters]

The BBC TV news about 30 minutes ago, which I watched live, reported that a gunman was overheard saying something about foreigners.

EDIT: from the BBC website

"Witness Luan Zequiri said he was at the scene when the shooting broke out. He tells the Germany broadcaster n-tv that he heard the attacker yell an anti-foreigner slur.

Thanks George.

 

[fresh_42]

One eyewitness said into a camera it has been right extremists cursing on foreigners, another one, a muslim woman on a phone said at McDonald she has heard allahu akbar. Tendency: right wing, because they apparently fled and the armed man on the roof insisted to be German.
(I hate both of them.)

 

[fresh_42]

Police press conference:
one perpetrator - committed suicide - 18 year old (male) german from munich of iranian heritage (double citizenship) - 9 dead victims - totally 16 injured (including children) - 3 severely injured - motive unclear - no earlier police records about him - weapon: pistol

 

[Astronuc]

The BBC also pointed out that five years ago today, the Anders Breivik attack in Norway happened,

Apparently the shooter was interested in Breivik, Columbine and Virginia Tech, and so-called 'rampage shootings'. The victims tended to be foreigners.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36874497

The 18-year-old gunman who killed nine people in Munich was obsessed with mass shootings but had no known links to the Islamic State group, German police say.

Written material on such attacks was found in his room. Munich's police chief spoke of links to the massacre by Norway's Anders Behring Breivik.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...shooting-police-evacuate-shopping-centre-live
Police confirm 18-year-old shooter had no links to the Islamic State
Attacker attempted to lure victims to scene of rampage on Facebook
Nine killed and 27 injured, youngest victims aged 13-years-old

Three of the dead were from Kosovo, three were Turkish and one was Greek, their respective government officials said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36870874
Police were looking for other suspects, but now believe the gunman was alone. The body of the suspected attacker was found about 1km (0.6 miles) from the shopping centre, local media reported, and police were using a robot to check it for explosives.

Sounds like a troubled young man with access to a gun. He apparently had a Glock pistol and 300 rounds.

 

[fresh_42]

The victims tended to be foreigners.

This could well be by chance. Those parts of the population are simply overrepresented at places like malls and McDonalds, esp. on a friday evening. He surely hasn't asked for a passport before shooting. And he himself (as of Iranian heritage and citizenship (he had both: German and Iranian)) was likely a bit foreign looking, too, whatever this should be in individual cases.

Nine killed and 27 injured, youngest victims aged 13-years-old

This number counts all people who have been taken into hospital during the event, i.e. those in the inner city of munch where police was called to assuming a larger plot were added. There have been calls about hostage taking, other shootings and so on. None of which was true, however, it seemingly caused some injuries or simply had been "usual" crime. Directly associated have been reported 16 injuries, 3 of which are still life threatening.

Sounds like a troubled young man with access to a gun.

The register number had been rasped off, i.e. the Glock has been bought on the black market. Not that it makes a difference, just for clarification.

 

[dipole]

There is currently a big police operation in the German city of Munich due to a shooting. The shooting seems to be the work of one or several extreme right militants who are sick of foreigners in the country.

I'm very worried about the developments of these terrorists attacks in Europe, both by extremist muslims and by their extremist right wing counterpart. This escalation of violence seems to be exactly what ISIS wants. How to stop this...

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-36870986

Please Micromass, stop mischaracterizing far right-wing ideology. The vast majoriy of right wingers are PEACEFUL and there is absolutely no connection between right wing ideology and violence. Your bigotry toward this group of people is very upsetting.

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

 

[micromass]

Please Micromass, stop mischaracterizing far right-wing ideology. The vast majoriy of right wingers are PEACEFUL and there is absolutely no connection between right wing ideology and violence. Your bigotry toward this group of people is very upsetting.

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

Not all right-wingers are extremists. Not all muslims are extremists.

 

[fresh_42]

Please Micromass, stop mischaracterizing far right-wing ideology. The vast majoriy of right wingers are PEACEFUL and there is absolutely no connection between right wing ideology and violence.

Not in this country. Your statement is as ridiculous as it is plain wrong. And even the American nazis and the KKK are very violent.

 

[dipole]

Not in this country. Your statement is as ridiculous as it is plain wrong. And even the American nazis and the KKK are very violent.

Obviously. That is my point, to show the hypocrisy currently surrounding this issue of terrorism. People have no problem telling it like it is about right-wing ideology, and they're right. When it comes to Islam, because it's shrouded behind the veil of religion, people refuse to offer the same honest critisism. I was jabbing Micromass for his position on this issue.

 

[dipole]

Not all right-wingers are extremists. Not all muslims are extremists.

I agree, but I have no problem saying right wing ideology often has violent undertones and is inherently more dangerous than other politcal ideology. My fight is to get people to view religion with the same lense as politics.

 

[micromass]

Obviously. That is my point, to show the hypocrisy currently surrounding this issue of terrorism. People have no problem telling it like it is about right-wing ideology, and they're right. When it comes to Islam, because it's shrouded behind the veil of religion, people refuse to offer the same honest critisism. I was jabbing Micromass for his position on this issue.

What is my position? I have called out extremist islam in the past. My original post even does so.
And no, I don't think right wing ideology has inherently violent undertones. But any ideology can be pushed to its extremes and then become violent.

 

[nikkkom]

I agree, but I have no problem saying right wing ideology often has violent undertones

Totally baseless. Left wing ideas in fact produced more dead bodies. Chinese Communists alone killed more people, and mostly *their own people* (estimated to be no less than 60 million), than all right wing dictators combined. I will not even go into whether Nazis, i.e. National-Socialists, can be classified "right wing". Go ahead, count them in. Still fewer deaths than "people's republic".

 

[micromass]

Totally baseless. Left wing ideas in fact produced more dead bodies. Chinese Communists alone killed more people, and mostly *their own people* (estimated to be no less than 60 million), than all right wing dictators combined. I will not even go into whether Nazis, i.e. National-Socialists, can be classified "right wing". Go ahead, count them in. Still fewer deaths than "people's republic".

I agree that there is nothing inherently violent about right wing. But you're making a logical fallacy. You're trying to counter "right wing has violent undertones" with "left wing has more violent undertones". That doesn't disprove that right wing doesn't have violent undertones!

 

[xAxis]

Totally baseless. Left wing ideas in fact produced more dead bodies. Chinese Communists alone killed more people, and mostly *their own people* (estimated to be no less than 60 million), than all right wing dictators combined. I will not even go into whether Nazis, i.e. National-Socialists, can be classified "right wing". Go ahead, count them in. Still fewer deaths than "people's republic".

What you sad has nothing to do with dipole's claim. Anyways, neither politics nor religion has not much to do with this sort of crime, at least not in the sense people usually connect them, so any further discussion in sad terms is futile.