Murder and why humans commit it

[evthis]

Why are more humans capable of murder more than any other species on our planet? Humans commit more murder than any other animal and, although I have my own line of reasoning as to why this is so, I would be interested in knowing what other people think.

 

[russ_watters]

Why are more humans capable of murder more than any other species on our planet? Humans commit more murder than any other animal and, although I have my own line of reasoning as to why this is so, I would be interested in knowing what other people think.

I'm not sure that's quite true, but animals are animals, so when they kill, it isn't murder. Some animals kill on a daily basis. If you mean killing within the species, quite a number of animals are territorial and kill each other over nothing more than a piece of land (sounds like humans...).

You did hear about the chimps that mauled a guy a few days ago, right?

 

[arildno]

Male chipmunks are extremely aggressive towards each other.
Intra-species killing is common; in fact, I think a murder instinct is a natural trait among humans which civilization does its best to suppress.

 

[loseyourname]

Chimpanzees regularly go on lethal raids to rid whatever portion of the forest they are capable of occupying of other ethnic groups (I use the term loosely to refer to a separate community of different patrilineage). If you get a chance, read the book . It goes into depth on the murderous habits of chimpanzees, contrasting it with the behavior of the other great apes and comparing it with humans to provide an evolutionary explanation of human violence.

 

[tribdog]

look at the insect world. Don't male lions kill all cubs they didn't father when they take over? lots of animals commit murder the only difference with humans is that we punish it. Nice try trying to make humans look barbaric.

 

[DaveC426913]

Murder is a moral issue. Morality was invented by humans, for humans.

Humans are, by definition, the only species capable of murdering.

 

[Moonbear]

Don't male lions kill all cubs they didn't father when they take over?

Infanticide is very common among animals. Everything from all but the strongest baby bird getting thrown from the nest, to inexperienced mothers eating their offspring as they are born (though, not sure if that's murder...they get carried away licking and cleaning the pups until they've eaten right through the pup), and males killing infants unrelated to them.

 

[tribdog]

(though, not sure if that's murder...they get carried away licking and cleaning the pups until they've eaten right through the pup),.

quite possibly the most disturbing thing I've ever heard. heck of an oops.
do any animals seem to like the flavor of themselves?

 

[hypatia]

On my property the Foxes murder other small game all the time. They don't eat it, just maul it.

 

[russ_watters]

And let's not forget about the evil women who eat their mates.

 

[Moonbear]

And let's not forget about the evil women who eat their mates.

I'm not sure which is worse, the statement that women eat their mates, or given the thread topic, the implication that women aren't human. :grumpy:

Edit: Note that I'm not disputing the comment that women are evil, but only because you're referring to women who eat their mates, which I would say must be only the evil women.

Hmm...how does that logic go?
Evil women eat their mates.
No mates have been eaten.
No women are evil.

Oh dear, my twisted mind just found an entirely different meaning to that, and I think I'll just drop it there.

 

[russ_watters]

The real question, Moonbear is do women really have those animal instincts (actually, I'm not really sure - is it only female insects that do it, or do any mammals or even primates do it?)? It has already been suggested that the territorial instincts of primates translate into human male aggression (and I'd tend to agree). Does the same apply to women?

Or, I dunno, maybe I'm just in a misogynistic mood tonight...

 

[Moonbear]

The real question, Moonbear is do women really have those animal instincts (actually, I'm not really sure - is it only female insects that do it, or do any mammals or even primates do it?)? It has already been suggested that the territorial instincts of primates translate into human male aggression (and I'd tend to agree). Does the same apply to women?

Or, I dunno, maybe I'm just in a misogynistic mood tonight...

You mean like biting the heads off men (er, I meant male praying mantises).

Considering that testosterone is pretty well established as contributing to male aggression and territoriality, there's no reason to think men are any different other than in the ability to think before acting and resist those natural urges.

I think women are more likely to show maternal aggression; in other words, protecting their children. Don't ever make the mistake of stepping between a new mother and her baby sitting in the shopping cart at the grocery store! Several of my friends with children have reported similar "irrational" urges to lunge at the person who simply was trying to walk past the cart to get down the store aisle. There are also plenty of bad mothers who abuse their children (and bad fathers too).

Studies in mice suggest that females located between males in utero (remember, mice are litter bearing) get exposed to more testosterone than if they are between two females, and those females that get more testosterone are more aggressive. When their habitat gets overcrowded, these aggressive females actually make better mothers because they fight off competitors and are better able to protect their pups, while other litters are more likely to get killed. I have no idea if this in any way relates to women (we're certainly not litter bearing (normally anyway), so it's not due to testosterone exposure in utero unless we're talking about fraternal twins), but there may be different adaptive values to different levels of aggression being present.

 

[Mk]

Yeah, I think females generally kill more males than males kill males, within the same species of course. Praying mantis females eat males during copulation, and many female spiders eat their males afterwords. Several species of deep-sea fish, have the male latch on and biologicaly fuse to the female, that's also much larger than it. The male feeds off of the female's blood, while the female feeds off the male's semen. When the male's sperm is all gone, then either the female cuts off circulation to the male, or it just dies, I forgot which one.

Sounds pretty barbaric huh?

 

[loseyourname]

Chimpanzees regularly go on lethal raids to rid whatever portion of the forest they are capable of occupying of other ethnic groups (I use the term loosely to refer to a separate community of different patrilineage). If you get a chance, read the book . It goes into depth on the murderous habits of chimpanzees, contrasting it with the behavior of the other great apes and comparing it with humans to provide an evolutionary explanation of human violence.

I should note that the object of the lethal raiding actually needn't be a group of different patrilineage. Sometimes one group will simply split into two and one of the two will systematically hunt down, ambush, and kill the members of the other whenever they are found to be vulnerable to attack (which generally means whenever they are outnumbered). It reminds one of the old crime families that would sometimes split into two families when an underboss wanted more power, and then go to war with each other.