Need to survive?

  • Thread starter steenpat
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Main Question or Discussion Point

Why exactly are humans driven by a feeling to need to exist?
It would seem to me, in a purely deterministic system that such a desire would be completely alien. I don't believe virii or bacteria have these feelings for instance, and they seem to get along just fine being driven by completely physical processes.
 

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  • #2
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Do you mean why do we have a survival instinct/reproduction? Or is it something else?
 
  • #3
bobze
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Why exactly are humans driven by a feeling to need to exist?
It would seem to me, in a purely deterministic system that such a desire would be completely alien. I don't believe virii or bacteria have these feelings for instance, and they seem to get along just fine being driven by completely physical processes.
Evolution is the name of the game. The name of the game is evolution.

Why does sex feel good? Why is cocaine addictive? Why are there adrenalin junkies?


Ancestors, to become ancestors had to have a "will" to survive and reproduce, those that didn't couldn't have become ancestors. You want to live, have sex, feel good, because your ancestors were winners :smile:
 
  • #4
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Evolution is the name of the game. The name of the game is evolution.

Why does sex feel good? Why is cocaine addictive? Why are there adrenalin junkies?


Ancestors, to become ancestors had to have a "will" to survive and reproduce, those that didn't couldn't have become ancestors. You want to live, have sex, feel good, because your ancestors were winners
I understand all these things, but it seems to be a circular reasoning, like the chicken/egg effect. Plus, with the virii/bacteria thing, they don't have any particular encoded feedback system that provides incentives to reproduce/eat, like the endorphins that humans feel. Actually, bacteria have been here way longer than we have and have no need for such complex brains to evolve.

Do you mean why do we have a survival instinct/reproduction? Or is it something else?
Primarily, I wanted to know why did primates or other animals in general develop a 'sense' of fear that protects them from early death. As with the bacteria model, I suggested such organisms didn't require this feedback system. Is it just then, a by-product of random evolutionary pathways?
 
  • #5
bobze
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I understand all these things, but it seems to be a circular reasoning, like the chicken/egg effect.
But the chicken or egg "paradox" isn't circular or a paradox :smile:

Plus, with the virii/bacteria thing, they don't have any particular encoded feedback system that provides incentives to reproduce/eat, like the endorphins that humans feel. Actually, bacteria have been here way longer than we have and have no need for such complex brains to evolve.
Right, and this is why I used "will" in the "". Will, I think as you are using it here, implies more complex neural interactions than a bacteria or virus has. Certainly they don't endorphin reward systems.

They are simply slaves to their chemistry. Viruses replicate, because that is all their chemistry allows.

Primarily, I wanted to know why did primates or other animals in general develop a 'sense' of fear that protects them from early death. As with the bacteria model, I suggested such organisms didn't require this feedback system. Is it just then, a by-product of random evolutionary pathways?

That's a good question, but I think it probably has too much of a teleological direction to it (again, we can likely thank evolution for this tendency of ours).

Those more complex neural manifestations of "will" evolved because they were the most successful paradigms for evolutionary success in the contextual environment--I know boring right?

Bacteria certainly do have feedback systems, but in the case of "feedback will" systems they are lacking. Their feedback systems again, are slaves of chemistry (evil biochemistry to be exact).
 
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Those more complex neural manifestations of "will" evolved because they were the most successful paradigms for evolutionary success in the contextual environment--I know boring right?
That makes quite a bit more sense. Again, following the seemingly random process of natural selection? Or if we adhere to determinism, then it was inevitable anyway.
 
  • #7
bobze
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That makes quite a bit more sense. Again, following the seemingly random process of natural selection? Or if we adhere to determinism, then it was inevitable anyway.


Well remember, natural selection as a process isn't random. Selection is a differential rate of survival and reproduction--Mutation is a (for the most part) random process and its random variants that selection acts up, by wit of the environment (both biotic and abiotic factors).
 

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