# Negative mass,gravity and electricity

1. Jul 31, 2004

### kurious

the source of dark energy

Like rest masses attract - so presumably unlike rest masses would repel,
if rest masses were similar to charges.
But where are any gravitationally repulsive rest masses in our universe?
Antimatter is missing too.
Nobody knows what dark energy is.
So, could dark energy be gravitationally repulsive antimatter?

There is far more rest mass equivalent(E=mc^2) in dark energy
than could come from an amount of antimatter equal to the amount of baryonic matter in the universe (we would expect a 50/50 ratio).
But if much more baryonic matter and antimatter existed in the early universe and dark energy had as its source baryonic matter and antimatter,
then it could well be made from them.

Last edited: Jul 31, 2004
2. Jul 31, 2004

### pallidin

"But where are any gravitationally repulsive rest masses in our universe?"
There are none shown to exist. Doesn't mean they don't, just that it is purely speculative without any evidence whatsoever.

"Antimatter is missing too." Perhaps in the far reaching voids of space we might find natural anti-matter, but that is a huge if. Anti-matter in "normal" space would soon cease to exist as such in eventual interaction as shown through experimentation.

"Nobody knows what dark energy is." Dark energy is simply the completion of theretical models which lack substantive data. It is NOT some bizarre energy.

"So, could dark energy be gravitationally repulsive antimatter?" Anti-matter does not posses any qualities to afford repulsive gravitational effects. It is anti-matter, not anti-reality.

3. Jul 31, 2004

### force5

How about Dark Matter?

4. Aug 1, 2004

### kurious

But where are any gravitationally repulsive rest masses in our universe?"
There are none shown to exist. Doesn't mean they don't, just that it is purely speculative without any evidence whatsoever.

Kurious:
The repulsive masses could form a universe side by side with ours but the problem is that we would expect anisotropies in the microwave background to show this.
However, if antimatter was somehow split into smaller mass particles than matter in the early universe,the antimatter could be all around us and wouldn't react with matter.
Also,fragmented antimatter could have a short range repulsive gravitational field,
which goes unnoticed.I think that a proton is stable because in the early universe the particle which could cause it to decay was annhilated in some other interaction.
And very possibly galaxies formed so quickly because another particle in he early universe caused a chain reaction in baryonic matter that lead to a greater gravitational force being created,if only briefly.We assume gravity is an unchanging force but perhaps it is not when matter and ntimatter are under extreme conditions of temperature and pressure.

5. Aug 1, 2004

### marlon

kurious, how do you justify the existence of this repulsive rest mass ???

If i am getting the point, then this repulsive restmass can play the role of dark energy right, because it speeds up the expansion of the universe ???

But what does antimatter got to do with all this ???
Wouldn't this antimatter annihilate all existing matter. Yes it would !!!

regards
marlon

6. Aug 1, 2004

### kurious

Marlon:

kurious, how do you justify the existence of this repulsive rest mass ???

If i am getting the point, then this repulsive restmass can play the role of dark energy right, because it speeds up the expansion of the universe ???

But what does antimatter got to do with all this ???
Wouldn't this antimatter annihilate all existing matter. Yes it would !!!

Kurious:
The repulsive rest mass -antimatter-has been broken down into tiny fragments (which would not react with matter to annihilate because lots of fragments would have to come together simulataneously which would be unlikely)
which only have repulsive gravity over a very short range.Dark energy is not made from this antimatter.I think that vacuum particles come in pair-antipairs and are made from antimatter-matter,but the antimatter has negative energy and so unless the pairs move apart they have no net energy to interact with protons electrons etc.There must be an excess of gravitons over antigravitons or elese gravity wouldn't exist as a force.Gravitons with positive energy become dark energy as the gravitational force between galaxies weakens.The gravitons must undergo a phase change which increases their volume and causes space to expand (think of a balloon containing a liquid in equilibrium with its gas.As the balloon expands more liquid evaporates and keeps the pressure constant which is what dark energy does - it is called the Cosmological constant).

Last edited: Aug 1, 2004
7. Aug 1, 2004

### marlon

hmmm, sounds quite speculative to me...

regards
marlon

8. Aug 1, 2004

### kurious

It has to be speculative - so little is known about dark energy but if one tries to link it to other pphenomena in the universe one can see if any useful connections arise.

9. Aug 14, 2004

### Muddler

10. Aug 14, 2004

### Chronos

Dark matter has nothing to do with dark energy. And anti-matter is not even a player. Try again.

11. Aug 16, 2004

### Antonio Lao

The quantum of mass is given by

$$\pm \frac{h}{ac}$$

This mass can take on positive and negative value. With this, zero mass such as photon can be explained.

12. Aug 16, 2004

### kurious

CHRONOS:
Dark matter has nothing to do with dark energy. And anti-matter is not even a player. Try again.

kurious:

If dark energy consisted of waves moving through intergalactic space,collision of these waves with masses like stars could give the stars a greater net gravitational attraction towards the centre of a galaxy and hence dark energy would fulfill the role of dark matter.If gravity is a pushing force then the same effects could be caused by the gravitational force carrier.

13. Aug 16, 2004

### Antonio Lao

Since this quantum of mass is the same magnitude as the Planck mass and the electron has a very tiny mass, so in order to express the mass of electron in terms of the quanta of mass, inverse multiples can be used such that

$$m_e = \frac{1}{\alpha} m^{+} + \frac{1}{\beta} m^{-}$$

where

$$m_e$$ is the mass of electron.

$$m_e = m_q \left(\frac{\alpha - \beta}{\alpha \beta} \right)$$

where

$$m_q=\left|\pm \frac{h}{ac}\right|$$

14. Aug 16, 2004

### Antonio Lao

When alpha is greater than beta, the mass is positive. When beta is greater than alpha, the mass is negative.

When alpha equals beta, the mass is zero.

15. Aug 16, 2004

### Antonio Lao

Since both alpha and beta can be extremely large integers, they can be expressable as the power of smaller integral values.

$$\alpha = x^m$$

$$\beta = y^n$$

where for the general case, m is not necessarily equal to n.

16. Aug 16, 2004

### sol2

Just want to say thanks Antonio for all your explanations.

17. Aug 16, 2004

### Antonio Lao

Sol2, you are welcome.

18. Aug 16, 2004

### C. Michael Turner

The nature of the Universe is so misunderstood that it is strange to watch. All matter including "space" is comprised of bound, condensation gravitation or evaporative gravitation. Yes! Mass evaporates, decays, into the gravitational wave creating time and space as actions of the process. Gravitational wave sychronization brings masses together. Therefore there are three actions- TIME, SPACE, and GRAVITATIONAL WAVE SYNCHRONIZATION. To read more go to www.photontheory.com and click on papers. Dr.Turner's Universe

Last edited: Aug 16, 2004
19. Aug 17, 2004

### kurious

I think mass and force carriers might evaporates into dark energy and dark energy can condense back into mass - explains where dark energy comes from.I also think the gravitational force carrier moves faster than light and can account for "instantaneous" action at a distance.How does the photontheory explain the fact that a photon can become a positron-electron pair?

Last edited: Aug 17, 2004
20. Aug 17, 2004

### Metallicbeing

I agree with Chronos. Besides, antimatter does NOT have a repulsive gravitational force. It has just regular ol' gravity. Your idea is flawed.