Medical Neurons interact classically?

Q_Goest · Mar 1, 2007

I'm looking for a published paper I can reference that indicates neurons interact classically (ie: no quantum entanglement between neurons). Is there any such reference?

setAI · Mar 1, 2007

I was surprised! I did a quick archiv check for classical neurons and instead found a bunch of papers tht argue that the brain CANNOT be classical Moderator note: articles that are only submitted and not accepted for publication are not valid references, and links to these have been deleted.

the only paper I know of that directly challenges some form of quantum brain process [Hameroff's] is Victor Stenger's "The myth of quantum consciousness" http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Quantum/QuantumConsciousness.pdf [Broken] but this is just an article with no citations that I am aware of- so it actually looks like more research is looking for quantum processes of some sort and not arguing against- I did not realize that!

Q_Goest · Mar 1, 2007

Thanks setAI. I'll take a look soon. Did you see any paper in particular that addresses the issue better than the others?

Q_Goest · Mar 1, 2007

Thanks for the references, guys. However, what little I know about neuroscience is that the interactions between neurons relies on the exchange of neurotransmitters across a snynaps. These are simple chemical signals (ie: classical). I'm familiar with Hameroff and Penrose's work, and I understand they may even be suggesting there could be quantum interactions across neurons, but I believe there's much more evidence right now that these signals going between neurons are strictly chemical. Perhaps there's no good reference because it's simply not been considered except for the opposing view point which is in need of proving that perhaps quantum interactions exist.

Maybe another way to phrase the question is: "What reference or experiment has been done which most conclusively proves that the interactions between neurons is chemical." I see there's an experiment performed by Otto Loewi regarding a couple of frog hearts.

Before Loewi's experiments, it was unclear whether signalling across the synapse was bioelectrical or chemical. Loewi's famous experiment, published in 1921, largely answered this question. According to Loewi, the idea for his key experiment came to him in his sleep. He dissected out of frogs two beating hearts: one with the vagus nerve which controls heart rate attached, the other heart on its own. Both hearts were bathed in a saline solution (i.e. Ringer's solution). By electrically stimulating the vagus nerve, Loewi made the first heart beat slower. Then, Loewi took some of the liquid bathing the first heart and applied it to the second heart. The application of the liquid made the second heart also beat slower, proving that some soluble chemical released by the vagus nerve was controlling the heart rate. He called the unknown chemical Vagusstoff. It was later found that this chemical corresponded to acetylcholine (Kandel, et al 2000).

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Loewi
Any and all thoughts would be appreciated.

Moonbear · Mar 4, 2007

Q_Goest, the reason you will not find any one single paper that says what you are saying is that EVERY paper by a reputable group in neuroscience says this. Open any peer-reviewed journal in Neuroscience, and you'll see page after page of articles demonstrating the nature of synaptic functioning. There is no reason to dispute this, because in reputable sources, there is no debate on this matter.

Given all of the overly speculative posts and non-peer-reviewed sources I've just had to delete out of this thread, I have to lock it at this point.

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Medical Neurons interact classically?

Q_Goest

setAI

Q_Goest

Q_Goest

Moonbear