Neutron Stars: Strong Force, Density & Black Holes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the forces that hold neutron stars together, particularly the role of the strong force versus gravity, and how these forces relate to the formation of black holes. Participants explore concepts of density, degeneracy pressure, and the interactions between particles in extreme conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether neutron stars are primarily held together by the strong force or if gravity is the dominant factor, particularly in relation to black holes.
  • Another participant asserts that gravity is the main force holding neutron stars together, suggesting that the strong force prevents collapse into black holes.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the strong force acts similarly to gravity but over a much shorter range, proposing that if neutron stars become dense enough, they could collapse into black holes due to gravitational forces overcoming strong force interactions.
  • One participant introduces the concept of degeneracy pressure, explaining how electron degeneracy pressure prevents white dwarfs from collapsing and how neutron degeneracy pressure operates in neutron stars, leading to potential black hole formation under sufficient mass.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of bosonic forces and their role in particle interactions, particularly in the context of the Pauli exclusion principle and quantum states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the primary forces at play in neutron stars, with no consensus reached on whether the strong force or gravity is more significant. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interplay of these forces and their implications for black hole formation.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference concepts such as degeneracy pressure and the Pauli exclusion principle, but there are unresolved assumptions about the interactions of forces at extreme densities and the conditions under which neutron stars may collapse.

Jonny_trigonometry
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Is a neutron star held together mainly by the strong force? Are they dense enough so that this is the case, or is gravity the only thing to consider? What about black holes?
 
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No, it's held together by gravity. The nuclear strong force is pretty much what prevents it from collapsing into a black hole.
 
huh, now that doesn't make much sense to me. Doesn't the strong force act on any mass, and not care about charge? Therefore, it acts the same way as gravity (bosonic, is that the right word?), but just in a shorter range (10^-15 meters I think). So to me, if the neutron star becomes dense enough so that the strong force would take effect, then the core would pull together and the outside would come crashing into it to make a super dense conglomeration maybe even turning into a black hole...? This way of looking at it simply makes more sense to me.

I just don't see why it would prevent gravity from pulling everything together too much. If it acted in a way as to repel each neutron from the others, then it would prevent gravity from pulling them closer than 10^-15 meters apart, so that if matter was constantly being put into the system, the whole star would have a maximum density for a while until the strong force couldn't repel things enough to overcome gravity and the core would collapse. But this is not how it works as far as i understand.
 
Jonny_trigonometry said:
I just don't see why it would prevent gravity from pulling everything together too much. If it acted in a way as to repel each neutron from the others, then it would prevent gravity from pulling them closer than 10^-15 meters apart, so that if matter was constantly being put into the system, the whole star would have a maximum density for a while until the strong force couldn't repel things enough to overcome gravity and the core would collapse. But this is not how it works as far as i understand.
It is called degeneracy pressure. Electron degeneracy pressure keeps a White Dwarf from collapsing further. Add more mass, and this pressure is "overwhelmed" by gravity and it could collapse to a Neutron star. Then, we have neutron degeneracy pressure. Add more mass and we can collapse to a black hole.
The "Bosonic" fources you refer to are not attractive to where particles can occupy states as described (or excluded) by the Pauli exclusion principle; certain quantum states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dwarf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_degeneracy_pressure
 
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