Advice on Watching Nicholas Berg Video - Rachel

[honestrosewater]

I am trying to decide if I will, if I should, watch the video of his beheading. I wish I didn't have to consider this question, but I wish a lot of things. Can anyone offer some advice?
Rachel

 

[confutatis]

I don't think you should. It may have a negative effect on you; it may leave you with the illusion that those people are evil and we are good. Which is the whole point of this anyway. Or do you think the media is interested in truth?

 

[honestrosewater]

I don't think you should. It may have a negative effect on you; it may leave you with the illusion that those people are evil and we are good. Which is the whole point of this anyway. Or do you think the media is interested in truth?

The whole point of what? I don't understand to what "this" refers.

So I should think all people in the media are evil and not interested in truth? It seems you have been left with an illusion yourself.

 

[THANOS]

I watch it and I wish I hadn't. But your views do change when you watch it. I think that's what he means.

 

[honestrosewater]

For whatever reason, this story has had an especially intense effect on me. I have also heard several seasoned people describe it as one of the worst things they have seen. I am not worried about my views changing, I can deal. I think it's a remembrance thing. The image would make it more "real", more difficult to forget or rationalize away. I don't know.

 

[Jeebus]

The whole point of what? I don't understand to what "this" refers.

So I should think all people in the media are evil and not interested in truth? It seems you have been left with an illusion yourself.

This refers to war, I believe; interpreting confutatis' note right.

That's not what he said or meant. He meant that the media is concerned with morality, but in their line of work, they would rather see our reaction of how we communicate our morals on the situation to others. The illusion is of war.

 

[cragwolf]

I watch it and I wish I hadn't. But your views do change when you watch it.

How did your views change?

 

[Jenn_ucsb]

I decided not to watch it because I think I am capable of understanding gruesomeness without seeing it. Also, if I were to watch this, I would feel compelled to watch the deaths of the thousands of Iraqis that have been killed in this senseless war.

 

[M M]

I am trying to decide if I will, if I should, watch the video of his beheading. I wish I didn't have to consider this question, but I wish a lot of things. Can anyone offer some advice?
Rachel

i just want to talk about the execution of Nicholas Berg first i would like to say I am Egyption and Moslim and only thinking about what they have done to him make me feel really sick..there have no excuse ..and what they did was not human ,and I am so sorry for his family...
i was thinking to watch the tape but i don't think i can ..

 

[Ebolamonk3y]

Its a sickening video... Its my first viewing of a decapitation... I am surprised at myself being so desenstized to this stuff... I wonder what's the point of it all...

 

[M M]

i can imagine ..i don't think i can sleep if i see that..its just terrible to kill a helpless person can't even move ..

 

[THANOS]

Well my views seeing Iraqis as the people being bullied by Americans. But the Iraqis can only be victims for so long until they get pushed over the edge and resort to picking on even smaller people with sick outcomes. Iraqis could have handle things much less brutally and would make the Americans the sick ones. My views changed by seeing both Americans and the Iraqis as sick instead of just the Americans. Of course i don't see their whole countries as sick but more of their military methods.


First the Americans had no right to humiliate the Iraq prisioners.
Second nothing can justify what has happened to Nicholas Berg. And all those responsible deserve to be punished. There was no pity, remorse or guilt in their actions and they just treated him like what a butcher would do to a pig.

 

[dbkelley]

The whole point of what? I don't understand to what "this" refers.

So I should think all people in the media are evil and not interested in truth? It seems you have been left with an illusion yourself.

I keep reading everyone talking about should they or shouldn't they watch this video. How do you suppose you'd have the chance let alone the choice to watch it. This is something I seriously doubt is going to be able to be viewed by anyone except the top authorities. I've read articles about the video being a fake. Which I don't honestly see how it "could" be. I think that if the public "HAD" a chance or the choice for that matter to view this video, it may possibly shed some light onto a lot of matters.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

The video has been released on several websites. If you wish to find it and watch that is your business.

Notice: Any links to the video posted here will be deleted

 

[Chen]

I don't think you should. It may have a negative effect on you; it may leave you with the illusion that those people are evil and we are good. Which is the whole point of this anyway. Or do you think the media is interested in truth?

Are you trying to accuse the media for being biased? Because it has also made a big deal out of the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners, so you can hardly accuse it of emphasizing pro-US stories and hiding stories that show the US in bad light. And besides, it was the Arab media that decided to make this video public, it's not like the murderers invited reporters from CNN to witness the event. So if it makes them look evil, they have only themselves to blame.

 

[olde drunk]

If you believe that war is a necessity - watch the video. War ain't fun and it is for real, a life and death situation. This will show how barbaric you must be to just survive combat. Not win, survive.

If you believe in peace - there is no need to watch. you know that war is a poor choice for solving any problem.

embrace peace,
olde drunk

 

[Kerrie]

it would seem to me that people who have a curiosity of watching a gruesome act are not remembering that this was a person who had a family who loved him and would rather this not be a public viewing. out of respect for this family, i think it would be good if we all choose to not watch it. these men who are responsible for this horrific act want to be known for their intent on hurting another, and would smile each time they knew someone (especially an american) had a desire to watch this horrific act.

 

[russ_watters]

I am trying to decide if I will, if I should, watch the video of his beheading. I wish I didn't have to consider this question, but I wish a lot of things. Can anyone offer some advice?
Rachel

I choose not to view it. I know what happened, there is no need to watch it. To watch it only serves to cause emotions and possibly a visceral reaction that I don't wish to have (there is a good chance I'd vomit).

However, if you think you need that reaction for whatever reason, by all means watch it.

it would seem to me that people who have a curiosity of watching a gruesome act are not remembering that this was a person who had a family who loved him and would rather this not be a public viewing. out of respect for this family, i think it would be good if we all choose to not watch it.

Certainly reasonable, but I'm not really sure what the family wants or what he would have wanted.

these men who are responsible for this horrific act want to be known for their intent on hurting another, and would smile each time they knew someone (especially an american) had a desire to watch this horrific act.

True only if the reaction they get is the one they are looking for. Terrorism by definition is an attempt to intimidate. Americans generally respond in the opposite way from which terrorists would like: we get more aggressive.

If the intent of 9/11 was only to kill as many people as possible, then it was a success. If it had a larger intent to scare us into changing an attitude in their favor (pulling out of the middle east, for example), then it utterly backfired. Same idea here.

 

[honestrosewater]

If you believe that war is a necessity - watch the video. War ain't fun and it is for real, a life and death situation. This will show how barbaric you must be to just survive combat. Not win, survive.

If you believe in peace - there is no need to watch. you know that war is a poor choice for solving any problem.

embrace peace,
olde drunk

Thank you :) I'm glad that I waited to make the decision. I'm not going to watch it.

 

[honestrosewater]

The illusion to which I was referring is the illusion that all individuals in some group are exactly the same, in every way. Are all individuals in the media biased? Or are some biased and some not biased? Are all Americans opposed to the war? Do all Americans support the war?
Was Nick Berg killed because he supported the war or because he lived in Pennsylvania?
I don't know his killers's motives, but their message speaks volumes.

You cannot put all Iraqi victims into one group either- some were engaged as combatants and some were civilian casualties. I am not making the distinction to justify any killing. I am making the distinction because they involve different intentions and motives. You can see these differences expressed when people take issue with the treatment of POW's.

Though I consider myself a civilian, I'm not sure if the line between civilian and combatant is so clear. I have never touched a gun, but my taxes do help pay for them. And perhaps I would sleep with a gun under my pillow, if I was without the protection of civil servants and the military.

When the war began, I was undecided. I am 21, and this is the first war I have watched on the news (instead of the history) channel. Nick Berg's killing made me realize that my "undecided" was turning into "indifferent". I think that is why it was so alarming to me.

Please don't take any of my comments as mean-spirited.

Happy thoughts
Rachel
P.S. I live in Florida and I voted in the 2000 elections. I voted for Nader.

 

[Timothy]

When can I find Nicholas Berg beheading video?

 

[enigma]

Elsewhere.

Sorry.

 

[honestrosewater]

In the spirit of discussion, I have to ask why the decision was made not to allow links to the video to be posted in this forum. IMHO you are not obligated to answer, but (still IMHO) there's no harm in asking.
Happy thoughts
Rachel

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

In the spirit of discussion, I have to ask why the decision was made not to allow links to the video to be posted in this forum. IMHO you are not obligated to answer, but (still IMHO) there's no harm in asking.
Happy thoughts
Rachel

This is straight from our guidelines

Attachments & Links:
Images, material or links to images and or material whether real, satirical or implied depicting obscene, indecent, lewd, pornographic, violent, abusive, insulting, or threatening in nature are not permitted on this bulletin board. This includes Gifs or cartoons.

 

[motai]

Certainly reasonable, but I'm not really sure what the family wants or what he would have wanted.

If I were in the family's situation, I would be horrified to find such a beheading of a family member available online for millions to see.

 

[honestrosewater]

This is straight from our guidelines

Oh yeah, why didn't I think of that?

 

[olde drunk]

The illusion to which I was referring is the illusion that all individuals in some group are exactly the same, in every way. Are all individuals in the media biased? Or are some biased and some not biased? Are all Americans opposed to the war? Do all Americans support the war?
Was Nick Berg killed because he supported the war or because he lived in Pennsylvania?
I don't know his killers's motives, but their message speaks volumes.

You cannot put all Iraqi victims into one group either- some were engaged as combatants and some were civilian casualties. I am not making the distinction to justify any killing. I am making the distinction because they involve different intentions and motives. You can see these differences expressed when people take issue with the treatment of POW's.

Though I consider myself a civilian, I'm not sure if the line between civilian and combatant is so clear. I have never touched a gun, but my taxes do help pay for them. And perhaps I would sleep with a gun under my pillow, if I was without the protection of civil servants and the military.

When the war began, I was undecided. I am 21, and this is the first war I have watched on the news (instead of the history) channel. Nick Berg's killing made me realize that my "undecided" was turning into "indifferent". I think that is why it was so alarming to me.

Please don't take any of my comments as mean-spirited.

Happy thoughts
Rachel
P.S. I live in Florida and I voted in the 2000 elections. I voted for Nader.

very nice post Rach. any war or violence has a tag end effect/affect on each individual. your honesty of being indifferent is refreshing and points up part of our problem.

In this day and age, we expect the police and army and government to do what is necessary to provide a safe, healthy and reasonably comfortable way of life for us. sorry to say, thru indifference we allowed the first mid-east action and other 'police actions' to happen without any public uproar.

now, as the body count increases, we can begin to see that we can no longer believe in military solutions. berg may have intuitively known that his death would help reveal the true nature of war.

finally, we are all biased. i can't believe that anyone worth his salt could be a robot on TV or otherwise. it is our individual responsibility to filter the information we receive as best we can.

good luck with nader or green or libertarian parties. they are viable alternatives to our other party(s?).

love and peace,
olde drunk

 

[jammieg]

It could have been far worse, they could have burned him at the stake for instance and that use to attract lots of viewers also, but they didn't and maybe that's a step up at least. I don't keep up with the war much, except to avoid it but a good thing about war is it cleanses the people of the more destructive elements more often than kills the fearful or dumb and also if I were of a more destructive nature then my response would be to kill them all and it would look like a good war and if I were more peaceful I would say let them be and if I were very dumb I would believe whatever the authorities told me to believe. I claim occasional war is good for the social structure of a nation and more important than money, like vietnam it's easy to see in retrospect that all the good reasons to get involved amounted to mostly bodybags, but it was done anyway for some reason...or is it an emotion? Is it possible that all reason is preceded by emotion with the intent of self-stimulating the emotion? If so that could explain why it's difficult to calm someone down who wants to stay angry and oddly enough just trying to calm such a person often results in an attack on you to try to get you to stimulate their anger or bring you to their level, but for what practical purposes does this merry-go-round serve? Do they use this tactic with the video? It's possible that deep down in the mind of a person and especially a terrorist exists a short cut way of wiring the brain to take a path of destruction and aggression and all the reasons and imaginary salvations and justifications only amount to choosing emotion over reason as one's guide in life, more emotional stimulation then equates to being more alive and is the good life. After the joys of war there is greater peace.

 

[honestrosewater]

olde drunk, thanks- I am trying to change and get around that "I'm only one person" wall. This has given me a reason to start writing again, after a 3-year-long case of a "What's the point?" writer's block.

jammieg, you make some interesting points. Would you support making prisons a free-for-all, locking all the prisoners in a big room and throwing away the key?
I think people can change and should be given the opportunity to do so. Sure, that's easy for me to say. If a person broke into my house and attacked me, do I have the right to kill them in self-defense? I would say yes, but only as a last resort.* I think it is my right to remove the threat they pose, but it is my responsibility to do so in the least harmful way- by trying to flee or knock them unconscious, for example. Of course, humans are emotional creatures, and reason doesn't always reign supreme. Still, you seem to agree that reason should try.

*This is my current opinion, but I am still debating it.

Happy thoughts
Rachel

 

[jammieg]

yes and call it Australia, let destruction destroy destuction, I mean even Hitler's war would look good to me if I had that nature in me or got suckered into it

 

[iggybaseball]

I hardly believe that the video will give any false illusions to people. After all, if you believe in illusions, than how can you say you are preventing yourself from being under the influence of an illusion (by not watching the video) when everything that you consume ( mentally) , whether from tv, newspapers, friends, co-workers, can rationally be argued to be an illusion? If you believe in illusions, do you honestly believe that you are illusion free right now?
war is a terrible thing. and we have more than ample evidence to prove this. However this video is no different at showing the atrocities of war than for example, footage of the holocaust. The video, if for any purpose at all, should be to show the truly graphic and sickening side of war. this is what we live in. this is what is going on while we sit at our computers and check our email. whether or not you as an individual should watch it is a personal question. I have not watched it, although i find no harm in the movie, because i am not sure if I could handle the gore. but this video is not a tool to manipulate people. we watch travesties from around the world, the prison abuse footage, israel/palentine pictures, and this is no different. if you feel that you already have a very accurate impression of what war is, then i am interested into how you feel after actually watching such a brutal act.
-iggybaseball

 

[phlud]

Video

When can I find Nicholas Berg beheading video?

I found it on Kazaa, it's very graphic, I don't suggest anyone with a weak stomach or will, to ever watch it.

 

[Will]

I found it on Kazaa, it's very graphic, I don't suggest anyone with a weak stomach or will, to ever watch it.

As far as my political motivations, I don't think I can be drummed up into an entire-nation-hating frenzy as easily as others.

But as far as the act and the individuals personally responsible, it was really awful to watch. Like others have said before, it was by far the worst thing I have seen. Way different than seeing some hollywood gore and all. The fact that its real, coupled with the extreme cruelty and fanatical fervor heard in the cries of the perpetrators after completely severing the head have really messed with my head! Its just inexcusable, and made me lose faith in mankind a bit, the fact that such hatred exists.

Seriously, I am talking like borderline therapy material! My friend could see it in my face days later;he asks "Your thinking about that beheading video again?"

Yup. Can't erase it from my mind.

 

[khermans]

I have not seen this video, but let me put my two cents in. One man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter". I haven't lost faith in mankind because of these acts. If any faith were to be lost, it would be due to the decisions made within that Oval Office and the apathy of American Citizenry. These "terrorists" were only doing what you and I would be taken to do if some other power threatened your livlihood and tightened their grip around your neck. Now, I'm not saying I agree with the way in which these terrorists acted, but it is not much different than that of which the US has done to other countries and peoples. The only difference is that this group happened to capture a graphic display of their violence and made it available for "consumers". You don't see the US military video taping their own graphic executions...that would be unacceptable for the "good guys"

 

[phlud]

Gotta have faith

I have not seen this video, but let me put my two cents in. One man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter". I haven't lost faith in mankind because of these acts. If any faith were to be lost, it would be due to the decisions made within that Oval Office and the apathy of American Citizenry. These "terrorists" were only doing what you and I would be taken to do if some other power threatened your livlihood and tightened their grip around your neck. Now, I'm not saying I agree with the way in which these terrorists acted, but it is not much different than that of which the US has done to other countries and peoples. The only difference is that this group happened to capture a graphic display of their violence and made it available for "consumers". You don't see the US military video taping their own graphic executions...that would be unacceptable for the "good guys"

I haven't lost my faith either. I believe, and hope, that one day all this senseless violence will be behind us.. and when I say violence I mean on both sides. I half agree with what you're saying and I understand. I don't agree with a lot of what the military (mainly washington) has done, they make us as a people look really bad and is only one of the numerous things other countries hate about us. As for what we've done to other countries, no we haven't made things much better, but I don't think our intentions are evil and any statements otherwise are merely hearsay. I don't know how people can honestly see 'us' on the same level of terrorists. They exploit their own religion, murdering and spreading fear in the name of Islam and Allah. Capturing innocents and killing them purposely for their own cause. We don't purposely bring harm to innocents, but sadly innocent people have died. Even the Iraqi military (at least the lower divisions) could be viewed as totally innocent and following orders based out of fear. I also remember a war way back when where we minded our own business and didn't bother anyone yet evil still rose and spread fear and death for their own cause. Now that we've struck the wasps' nest with our big stick, it will only become worse before it gets better, and any good to be seen, if any, won't be viewed for a long, long time.

Now in the case of Guantanamo... geeze, where do I even begin? There's no excuse for those acts. I really don't know if the troops were acting on some sicko's orders or if they all did it willingly on their own, but it's truly sickening. They may have totally undermined any little "good" we have done and as a country may no longer be taken seriously. Though this was an isolated incident as far as we know, they do not represent our military as a whole. Losing faith of our men and women is what the extremists would have wished for. Not claiming that I know any better than anyone else, but those are the eyes I view the world with. Please tell me in what ways my vision is flawed. Maybe I'm too hopeful and not seeing the big picture.