No God? Why good?

  • #51
jammieg
If every effect has a cause then what caused the universe to be here?
I don't believe the universe was created by a rock.
"There is only one religion, though there are a hundred versions of it."-George Bernard Shaw
To say the belief in God arises out of the instinct for selfpreservation is plausible, but to say the belief in God arises out of common sense is probable.
 
  • #52
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continued
With present day society leaning towards truth we have forgotten one thing.world is made of things that have what it takes to be there for a long time.we are talking of things that are good enough to survive for millions of years and these won’t let you off because one fine day you(actually your highly developed reasoning part of the brain)decides that it wants nothing but the truth.you need truth ninetynine percent of the time,mix one percent of good illusion and you have what it takes to count for a billion years more. This is also why we have irrational emotions:anger,hatred,greed,love, compassion etc.since
when they kick in,rationality could get you killed, without having children-ghastly!
Till now I have rallied for you believers , in a rather macabre way .let’s now rally against you beginning with this statement.i(what’s that?)feel(this too is irrational thing)that god in all his connotations is not the best illusion there can be to achieve the purpose assigned to him , our survival in the long run as a perfect social unit.this is hardly unexpected.two million years it has taken to cement this idea and for the majority of this unimaginably vast span society meant a group of less than 20 I’s. then in merely ten thousand year this belief had to contend with a thousand I’s ,then a million and then another million with a slightly different illusion(read god)and the nightmare had continued till today when we have ten billion people and hundreds of gods. No wonder we have fanatism, holy warsand what not.imagine your body suddenly growing by the minute with new arms,legs etc each with different I’s.they would be fighting over each others’ illusion and you would be all bruised up.in disgust you may ban all forms of I’s but then when the tiger comes they might not be inclined to run……………..!
That is the problem.there is a solution however.there isn’t anymore new human communities left.god has been defined and redefined countless of times before.lets do it once more,together in way which is most suited to our survival as a cohesive unit for a long long time.if me must eat fish let us choose the best one in the market.we at least have that freedom and we must use it judicially.
 
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  • #53
1,648
0
This is like asking, which is better: dinosaur or mammal.

Nature's 'judgement' was to let alomst all dinosaur go extinct, and form mamals into a species like humans.

Unless there is an (economical) reason to believe, believe will ultimately go extinct, like the dinosaur...

NB.
To belief is very 'economical' thinking. You can arrive at instantanious conclusions about the world in an absolute sence, valid for all times, without having to go through the hard work of aquiring relative knowledge, which can be and will be disproven one day, through science.
 
  • #54
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Originally posted by jammieg
If every effect has a cause then what caused the universe to be here?
Wrong thinking here. Causality can just claim that there was no 'first' cause to the way matter exists, but matter exists in a way of 'eternal' change/motion. Although all material forms known to us, are definately finite in spatial and timely extents, they ware always preceded by and will be followed by different matterial forms. Matter is in eternal transformation from one form, to another.
 
  • #55
DR OF DEATH
i have a very simple philosophy on what is good. (do unto others that which you want done to yourself) basically treat people how you want to be treated. this is a self centred philosophy that also benefits other people as well. this philosophy does not reuire a belief in a god of any sort as it depends purly on your actions.
 
  • #56
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well simply put, when you lack organized religion you make a personal philiosphy that is a huge calabration of outside morales and such so you define good and bad. On a side note: I have found that when you lack organized religion your very desprate to find meaning everywhere i have turned to song.
 
  • #57
477
4
Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
As a few of you might have noticed, I attempt to argue for beliefs beyond only those justified by science. In fact, I think that it can be wrong to challenge a person’s belief system since none can be defended. Of course, I only came to this conclusion after years of heated arguments with friends, relatives, eventually my wife, passers by, the guy at the donut shop...you get the idea. But with that said, I have always wondered all of you non-believers - since when a non-believer I encountered this paradox - what justifies doing good, and what is good...why bother? It seems to me that all arguments for anything except self-serving selfish behavior quickly fail. In turn, this kind of behavior has negative effects on society. Of course, if the world effectively ends with my death what do I care?
first of all, what self-serving selfish behavior? that is all we ever do! believers and non-beleivers alike, we all do for ourselves. What is the goal of a Christian? to get into heaven, of course! isn't this selfish? we do good only to give our selves a good feeling or to get something in return for it (eternal life).
secondly we (the nonbelievers) are still moral. the perfect society is one in which everyone helps each other and gets helped in return. we still get emotional and can care for people. we still know what good is, we just use our own definition of good instead of a god's definition.
 

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