What Are Some Normal Subgroups of D4?

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In summary, the conversation discusses subgroups and their normality in a group. It is proven that if N is a normal subgroup of G and N is a subgroup of H which is a subgroup of G, then N is normal to H. The conversation also discusses finding subgroups N and H in D4 such that N is normal to H and H is normal to D4, but N is not a normal subgroup of D4. The conversation provides a list of subgroups in D4 and suggests using theorems to determine normality. It is determined that there are 10 subgroups in D4, and the 10th subgroup is D4 itself.
  • #1
kathrynag
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Homework Statement



(a) Show that if N and H are subgroups of G such that N is normal to G and N < H < G,
then N is normal to H.
(b) Find subgroups N and H of D4 such that N is normal H and H is normal to D4, but N is NOT a
normal subgroup of D4.
I


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


a) if xN =Nx for x in G then xN = Nx for x in H
I don't know where to go with this
b) I'm stuck on picking subgroups
 
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  • #2
Ok, so you've solved a.

Now, can you list me the subgroups in D4?
 
  • #3
Well D4={e,r,r^2,r^3,f,fr, fr^2, fr^3}
I'm not really sure on all of the subgroups.
I have a couple:
{e,f}
{e,r,r^2,r^3}
 
  • #4
Well, question b is actually more trial-and-error. So I can't give you more advice then: try to find every subgroup and start checking for normality.

There are however a few theorems you might consider, which may ease the task:
1) every subgroup of an abelian group is normal
2) every subgroup of index 2 is normal
 
  • #5
Another thing that might help you: there are 10 subgroups of D4...
 
  • #6
{e}
{e,r,r^2,r^3}
{e,r^2}
{e,f}
{e,rf}
{e,fr^2}
{e,fr^3}
{r^2,f}
{r^2,fr}
Ok, so that gives me 9
 
  • #7
In order for it to be a subgroup, don't forget that it has to contain the identity.
 
  • #8
kathrynag said:
{r^2,f}
{r^2,fr}

These two are not subgroups. They do not contain the identity. And moreover, the product of two elements is not necessairily in the group. However, they do generate subgroups. Which one?

The tenth subgroup is just D4 itself..

Now, once you found all the subgroups, which ones are normal?
 

1. What is a normal subgroup of D4?

A normal subgroup of D4 is a subgroup that is invariant under conjugation by any element of D4. In other words, if H is a subgroup of D4, and g is an element of D4, then gHg^-1 = H. This means that the elements of H can be rearranged by conjugation without changing the fact that they form a subgroup.

2. How do you determine if a subgroup of D4 is normal?

To determine if a subgroup of D4 is normal, you can use the normal subgroup test. This test states that if a subgroup H of a group G has the property that gHg^-1 = H for all elements g in G, then H is a normal subgroup of G. In the case of D4, you would need to check if every element in D4 can be used to conjugate the subgroup in question while still leaving it unchanged.

3. Can a subgroup of D4 be both normal and non-normal?

No, a subgroup of D4 cannot be both normal and non-normal. A subgroup is either normal or not normal, there is no in-between. If a subgroup is not normal, this means that there exists an element in D4 that cannot be used to conjugate the subgroup while leaving it unchanged.

4. What is the significance of normal subgroups in D4?

Normal subgroups in D4 have several important properties. They are closed under conjugation, meaning that any element of D4 can be used to conjugate the subgroup without changing it. This makes them useful for understanding the structure of D4 and its subgroups. Additionally, normal subgroups are essential for defining the quotient group, which is an important concept in group theory.

5. Are there any known applications of normal subgroups in D4?

Yes, there are many applications of normal subgroups in D4. For example, normal subgroups are used in the classification of finite simple groups, which is a fundamental problem in group theory. They are also used in the study of geometric symmetries, crystallography, and other areas of mathematics and physics.

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