1. Jan 10, 2004

cswhisper

I've met a few people who are what people would consider genius. And from my experience I have noticed that it is only people of marginal intelligence who obsess about IQ tests. Majority of genius aren't that concerned with eugenics, they are much to busy conquering the world, making money, or with humanitarian projects. Most whom are concerned with IQ are in the 115 to 125 range. Why is that really? Does it stem from some type of inferiority complex? Or the need to feel superior by finding someone who is inferior to them.

And then of course we have the statistics, that prove how valuable IQ is, ooh wee can't forget those statistics. I know plenty about statistics, especially how they can be manipulated to say what you want them to.(Aside: I got a perfect score in statistics class, easiest math I ever took). There is a saying "Believe none of what you see, and half of what you hear." It applies perfectly to statistics. Lets look at some statistics.

Statistics show that black americans score lower on IQ than there caucasianoid counter points. Now let examine these statistics. According to the 2000 census, African Americans make up 12.3% of the total united states population, and non-hispanic whites make up 69.1%, native americans .09%, etc etc, I provided the link. Let say I am really ambitious, I manage to give an IQ test to every american in the Adult population. I now have my raw data. How do I go about displaying the results hmmm. I know I will divide the number of people with an IQ of genius (G) for each race, into the total number of people in the population. Now I know this doesn't sound fair considering whites outnumber blacks and since geniuses are rare, and do to the overwhelming number of whites in the country there will undoubtfully be more whites in genius category than blacks, but hey, my job is to get the results I want. And how do I display these results, well in percentages of course. If I am pro-eugenics, as are many authors that spuriously connect race with IQ, I want to make sure my results come out the way I want. So there you have it. The statistics show that whites on average have higher IQ than blacks.

2. Jan 10, 2004

Staff Emeritus
If you think this farrago represents any statistician's way of going about things, you should go back to the teacher of that statistics class and renogotiate your grade downward. It's a straw man argument made up of incorrect procedures.

Since you're so good at statistics look up the old book Bias in Mental Testing by Jensen. Most libraries have it. Read it and learn.

3. Jan 10, 2004

cswhisper

bite me. I never stated that this is how statistics is calculated. I simply stated that you can present the results in what ever light that best fits your own personal agenda. Raw data doesn't lie, statistics however is a joke.

You ever seen "Bowling for Columbine". I'm sure you can rent it at blockbusters.

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2004
4. Jan 11, 2004

Thallium

That did not exactly make me feel much better. I am afraid of being stupid and I need to prove to myself that I am intelligent. However, I am calmer now. It is nothing but a phase I am in because I am obsessed with getting good grades in school, but there are so many other important things to care about.

Humanitarian aid? Does prisoner support count?

5. Jan 11, 2004

Staff Emeritus
Michael Moore is of course the last word in statistical understanding.

6. Jan 11, 2004

Nachtwolf

That was my experience as well, and it's what turned me off to the whole subject. But it actually has many important large scale consequences which are quite fascinating. There's a difference between caring about IQ so you can say "I'm smart, he's smart, she's smart" and knowing about IQ so that you can understand social trends and possibilities.

Such tricks only really work on the uneducated and uncritical. Don't be fooled into thinking that statistics don't mean anything just because the weak minded can be easily confused by them.

You don't understand the situation very well at all. Such effects as you brought up are quite easy to account for - don't compare the number of geniuses in one population to another, simply take the average of each group and find the standard deviation. This will tell you everything you want to know. Regarding the example you gave, the white IQ average is approximately 100 with an SD around 15, the black average around 85 with an SD of 13. This is the way real scientists gather data and compile it statistically - they aren't stupid.

You don't understand what you are talking about.

--Mark

7. Jan 12, 2004

Thallium

No one replies to my posts.

What do you mean with obsession? Because I seldom take IQ tests. I started one on a science website. 40 questions and 41 minutes to finish it. The first 15 were more or less clicking through, but then the more challenging came. I really liked that test. Quite a good brainteaser and I like solving problems. Is it obsession when I am afraid of not being intelligent? Or if not, what is obsession with IQ tests?

8. Jan 12, 2004

TENYEARS

I became enlightened in 1987 and we are all the same. If you need to think differently I understand. There is no such thing as genius. When you understand that you will have reached your potential and not until. Genuis is realizing genius does not exist.

At one time or another in life we all feel a little stupid, if not compared to others maybe within ourselves. It is a function of being human with a relative vision of the world. When you punch through relativity, you will find the answer. It will not require a book or a teacher. It will only require answering a single question. When you do that, no one will ever be smarter than you, but neither will they be less stupid.

This understanding, when you achieve it, you will have no doubt. It will be a new state of mind which you have never before experienced.

9. Jan 13, 2004

Staff Emeritus
But if you're enlightened, there is no school, there is no work, it's all illusion, right? Probably you should start a thread about this on one of the philosophy forums.

10. Jan 14, 2004

TENYEARS

Truth has no boundaries, yet you would place it in a category?

11. Jan 14, 2004

Thallium

I am beginning to understand myself better. It is true about the relative vision one has to the world and the circumstances. I especially begrudge the one's in my class who get high grades, but I do too and the price I have to pay is hard work, reconsideration, constructing and using my thought.

There are no geniuses. I never believed there were. When one so-called genius has made a crucial discovery it sometimes appears that someone else thought of the same idea. Fortune or coincidence.

selfAjoint: What did you mean with if you are enlightened, there is no education or school? A rather irrational comment.

12. Jan 14, 2004

Staff Emeritus
Thallium, in many traditions - especially eastern ones - enlightenment means recognizing that the perceived world is a fake, only a mask for the One. I hasten to say I don't believe that, but it was a reasonable inference from his post. And you notice he didn't call my inference false, he changed the subject.

13. Jan 14, 2004

TENYEARS

selfAdjoint, what you spoke is just words you read and parrot back. You say I don't believe them. What if you did belive them. Did OJ do it. I believe or I do not. This is not knowlege, this is not truth. When an instructor teaches you something, you belive it. You test it within the confines of what is given to you and what you know. The question is, is this real knowlege what you post in your brain and memories? I am a fool for the most part, and I am not being humble or pretending to to look into the mirror of a mirror of a mirror. What I say is the truth, not because I say it for egos sake, but because it is. I was renewed on a specific day, it change me and obliterated a huge part of my relative being if that is a possible thing. You know the day.

I had a vision concerning proving of this. I was going to JREF, but I can see that is not the place. I was thinking to go to repuatble college and to have some statistical analysis done. My worry is would human kind benifit from it? Would it be more damaging than good.

I have been on this forum for a little more than a year and I still ask myself the same question waiting. You see how englightened can I be if I concern myself with such foolishness?

My concern is for the future of all peoples, of my children your children of this planet which we inhabit and are quickly destroying. If it was not for this, I would say nothing at all, but we must take reponsiblity, and the truth is the only way.

Thallium, heads up I threw you a ball and you just dropped it why? If you understand the nature of this small question, there is no mountain you will not be able to move. None of your classmates will understand this riddle. You might.

14. Jan 16, 2004

Thallium

You do like speaking in riddles don't you? I saw no ball, I did not catch it and therefore I could not drop it. I cannot know there was a ball if I was unaware of it. So tell me, what ball did you send that you thought I dropped?

15. Jan 18, 2004

TENYEARS

Why would you drop a ball that was thrown to you? Would it be because of inability? If you understand the nature of the question, the answer will be automatic. From that moment on, your life will be quite different. If you address the question the answer will be automatic. How can this be? All the clues you or anyone else need are located in this paragraph.

16. Jan 19, 2004

Thallium

I don't know what you are talking about. Forgive me, but your intelligence is far greater than mine - that is why I don't see what you mean. I see no hints, no clues. Perhaps you should do this discussion with someone brighter because I don't see where you are going.

EDIT And I am very angry because I don't understand. Why can't you just SAY IT?

17. Jan 19, 2004

TENYEARS

See now you are not telling the truth. You are the smartest person I know. The truth can take time, don't rush it, be consistant and you will find what you are searching for. Don't compare youself to others, it is a complete waste of time and has no value whatsoever.

18. Jan 19, 2004

Thallium

That got me thinking. Why am I the smartest person you know? Because there is no truth? I do not tell the truth because I do not know it.

19. Jan 19, 2004

TENYEARS

Thallium, I was responding to this "Forgive me, but your intelligence is far greater than mine - that is why I don't see what you mean.". When your desire to understand is great enough because knowing the truth is what is really important to you, the truth will have to choice but to respond. It's the law and it doesn't have a name.

20. Jan 19, 2004

Nachtwolf

Maybe you should lay off the dope.