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Nu er det nok , It is enough now

  1. Feb 11, 2006 #1
    First, those who seek troubles are not welcome to join this discussion.

    While I support a peaceful reaction against the rise of racism in some countries –especially these stupid cartoons, I am worry that the situation will be out of control. It is important now to arrange an opposite reaction against the extreme religious parties and right wing.

    There are two "harmful" small groups in ME got advantage from this critical political environment: pro American Neoconservatives, a group among the educated Arab called ‘’neo liberals” (This group has no respect among people, because they are traitors :devil: ). The other group is the ultra extremists group who got advantage from the barbarism of USA in Iraq.

    This is appreciated step from a homepage representing the left wing in the Arab world, so please add your signature and comments:


    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2006
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 11, 2006 #2
    Bilal? You haven't finished what you started off saying. What's up? Are you ok?
  4. Feb 11, 2006 #3


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    He was quoting another source...I've just added quote tags to make that clearer.
  5. Feb 11, 2006 #4
    [OK moonbear]

    Hi Alexandra, :smile:

    As Moonbear mentioned, this text was copied from other site. This site represents the left wing, the liberal and the moderate nationalists in the Arab world. There are hundreds or even thousands of writers from different backgrounds. One of them was jailed for 30 years in Iraq last month because he wrote article about Brazani (pro USA Iraqi Kurdish leader) . This Kurdish writer has Austrian nationality, so his goverment is working hard to release him.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2006
  6. Feb 12, 2006 #5
    Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of the press

    We have three small news magazines that are published in Salt Lake City, maybe more but for now three will do. If they publish cartoons of George Bush, as a sock monkey, those cartoons are not the opinion of the US Government, the people of the US, the people of Utah, or any large group either fundamental or liberal. They are just the images drawn by one individual, and every other individual that looks at them, sees something different in the content of the cartoon, or the intent of the person that drew the cartoon.

    The US Government can't come down on these little magazines because they don't like Bush portrayed as a sock puppet, because we have freedom of speech, and freedom of the press in our nation. The same is true in Denmark, or any of the other Western nations. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press is not a plot to undermine Islam, or Chrisitanity, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or Athiesm.

    Freedom of speech and the press enables us to have dialogue, or monologue, and to live as a free people.

    Our government is bound to allow this freedom to flourish, and cannot take sides with any one religion.

    Therefore in a free society, the government cannot come to these small papers, and say we didn't like how you portrayed Jesus, last week. We want you to stop that. They can't say we are basically a christian nation, and therefore christian values will be taken seriously, in everything you publish. By the same logic, they cannot endorse opinions that run counter to the ideals of Islam. Our government cannot do religion, either for or against.

    As much as our current administration is sick on the subject of their christianity, they are a a bump or crater in the road of our nation's history. They will be gone in their due time, and history will afford them, the respect they deserve.

    Lucky for us in this country, secular law protects us from religious maniacs of every sort. Lucky for us.
  7. Feb 13, 2006 #6
    Unfortunately those same maniacs sometimes find a way to hold an important office -ie, President - and then do a lot of damage before they are thru.
  8. Feb 14, 2006 #7
    Oh come on, are you comparing him to people who want to cut your throat because you aren't there religion? It's one thing to dislike the president, even hate him, but please don't make ludicrous statements like this. This is exactly what we want to avoid, this blind, unthinking reaction. Call him a scumbag politician, call him a traitor who sells out his country for money, I can see reasons for that. But for the love of reason, don't throw out baseless accusations and compare him to people who want to kill you becuase you're an "infidel". There have been plenty of Bush bashing threads: don't turn this into one of them.

    Getting back on topic, I think that these riots about the cartoons are going to hurt the arabs and muslims, rather then help them. In Western civilization it would be unthinkable to burn down buildings becuase of a stupid cartoon. Nobody lifted a finger when a crucifix was put in urine and called art. Every day christianity, buddism, judism, etc. are mocked and satired and very few people care, let alone riot and burn buildings. every religion is mocked, why should the muslims warrant special exception from this? The government should do absolutely nothing to punish or reproach the newspapers. It would be contrary to every value that runs through western society. If the left wing of the Arabs wants to call for the end of extremism it needs to look away from Europe and into its own countries.
  9. Feb 14, 2006 #8

    Your intelligent enough to realize my statement isn't baseless. And if your POV were different say you were an Iraq citizen at the start of the invasion you would see my point.

    Which governents? The Arab government? The western governments generally don't censure newspapers. But the Muslims strict code (for the most part) hold Muhammed inviolate, making a slight against him one against them so to speak.

    Russ Waters posted a site that has a very funny cartoon depicting Jesus/Bush, the scarily funny thing about it is from my observations it it is highly probable perhaps 100%. The site is: http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...ushvsjesus.htm
  10. Feb 14, 2006 #9
    I don't think that he invade Iraq becuase it's a muslim country. If that was true he would have gone into Saudi Arabia, or Palestine. However, Iraq was ruled by a totalitarian Sunni, not an extreme Shiite. As of yet there have been no christian laws, or overtones of them enacted in the government: I simply don't see any evidance that Bush wants to turn America into a completely christian nation. As for your comment about the Iraqi citizens POV, that argument can be spun around in more circles then a car doing donuts on ice. If I was German, or if I was French, or if I was Chinese, or if I was North Korean, etc. The way to get to truth is not to look at it from every single angle and then find the median between them. Truth is what is real, not the average of what people think is real. AS such I look at events, evidents and the facts.
    As for govnerments, yes I meant the western governments. The fact is that we have the freedom to satire anything we want. Religion can't come here and change that. When there were signs among the protesters that said, "Freedom go to hell", we should all have realized that there were important problems. Our civilization is built on the pursuit of freedom, and these people don't want freedom. They want things to be their way or nothing. It's not a reaction to racism or anti-Arabianism, it's a reaction to their totalitarian ideas.
    As I have said numerous times: all religions are mocked, so why should Islam be any different? Becuase Muhammed is sacred to them and images of him are forbidden, you answer. But surely you are aware that prominent sects of chritianity are opposed to pictures of jesus, yet they don't riot and burn. If these rioters want to be accepted and understood then they must learn how to integrate into society intsead of wanting to change it into another middle-east.
  11. Feb 14, 2006 #10
    Saddam was secular, also Iraq has oil. It is close to the Caspian Sea. Unicol and some other campanies want to build a pipeline thru Afghanistan to move the oil fron that region. Plans had already been made to do that and contracts signed but it fell thru because of unrest in the area. What was needed was a controled location to base the pipeline.

    Triangulation will help pinpoint a place or location, nuff said. You said:
    I think America is already primarily Christian.

    I check out as much of the evidence I can find not just whats spewed out in propaganda.

    Sects of Christianity don't ban pictures of what they think Jesus looked like.
  12. Feb 14, 2006 #11
    Not that this explanation has nothing to do with religion, or converting the middle-east to christianity.

    By choice, and not by force. It makes all the difference in the world.

    Then you haven't studied Christian deminations my friend. While it is true that most don't ban them, there are several that do. Scottish prespitarians are very stringent. The main one I can think if is the PR denomination: it is extremily conservative (yes, to the point of being opposed to pictures of Jesus) even though it's small.
  13. Feb 14, 2006 #12
    Strictly speaking the pictures would qualify as idolatry, since no one knows what Jesus actually looked like and no images of him have survived if any were made.
  14. Feb 14, 2006 #13


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    Strictly speaking, it's only idolatry if the picture is worshipped instead of Who it's supposed to represent. :tongue:
  15. Feb 14, 2006 #14
    Maybe it's semantics Hurkyl, There is something in the ten commadments about not having (graven) images. I'm not sure if it says not worshiping them.
  16. Feb 14, 2006 #15


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    Even if it were against the ten commandments, it would still not be idolatry.
  17. Feb 15, 2006 #16
    Why not? Most (not all) Christian and Catholic groups either hold the image of Jesus in reverance along with the apostles or (in the case of Catholicism) pray to them. Isn't that idolatry? I'll stop this now because we've swerved OT. BTW, my apology for discussing religions.
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