Number of Moderator Positions

[Infinitarian]

Actually, for most of its history the worst thing the Church did was excommunication, which is the same thing you're doing right now. Some scientists tortured sentient animals but that's no reason to accuse all scientists of that. Saying "you can always go to another forum" is like saying "you can always go to another religion," because anyone dominant enough to run a forum is dominant enough to abuse their position. You do not own this forum any more than the thousands of people who joined this forum before the censorship rules were even instituted. As it happens, this is also the largest forum on the net, and for advanced questions the only place where you're likely to get an answer. I already posted my question in half a dozen groups but no answer so far.

Not trying to change this forum, anymore than I am trying to change the world in a blog post, just venting before I leave. I have no more need of this forum and banning me will be purely symbolical. But the symbol will be in my favor, because I did not break any rules except to post a question about global warming.

People who flame are people who plan to be banned, and think that they might as well make it worth it. You provoke flaming. I was tempted to do it myself, but I'll get my point across better anyway if I don't. So my suggestion to the moderators is this: stand down. This forum would be better of without you, and the less of you there are to the better. You're useless to this forum and your position as moderators is just a way to make you feel better about yourself. People could just block people like on Facebook, or vote to hide their posts as on Youtube. This is my last post on a forum ever. The groups on Facebook are much smaller, but they'll have to do. They'll grow. I'm not the only one who's had enough of forums.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You have a point. If people would abide by the PF Rules - which every member agrees to when they join - we would need many fewer moderators. Unfortunately, some people's word is garbage.

In your past thread, a comparison was made to demanding meat at a vegetarian restaurant. A closer analogy would be to go to a restaurant with a big sign saying "Greg's Vegetarian Restaurant", sign a form that states you understand that this is a vegetarian restaurant, and then sling bloody carcasses on other people's tables, demanding that the chef cook them and others eat them.

PS It's "fewer" not "less".

 

[micromass]

You know why we are one of the only forums who can answer advanced questions? Because we care about quality. It is because we don't allow crackpottery. The experts here wouldn't be here if we were to allow what you suggested.

It's a bit funny that you come here for help because we answer advanced questions and then demand that we change everything about our forum so that we won't be able to answer advance questions anymore.

Anyway, about global warming. We wish to ensure quality discussion and quality information about science. Sadly enough, we don't have somebody who does actual research in global warming. So we are unable to adequately moderate global warming discussions. This is why we won't allow it. We feel that not discussing something is much better than spreading inaccurate information.
We are not saying that global warming is wrong or right.

 

[OmCheeto]

... You do not own this forum...

Greg owns this forum. I'm pretty sure his influence determines who is a moderator. I like the moderation here. That's why I pay to be here. PF is one of the last high quality products I can buy in America.

Go Good Golly Miss Molly yourself, Infi...



Om

 

[lisab]

PF isn't a democracy. Some folks have a hard time understanding that.

 

[micromass]

PF isn't a democracy. Some folks have a hard time understanding that.

PF is a monarchy. Long live King Greg I !

 

[berkeman]

As it happens, this is also the largest forum on the net, and for advanced questions the only place where you're likely to get an answer. I already posted my question in half a dozen groups but no answer so far.

Thank you for the nice compliment!

 

[Borek]

Go Good Golly Miss Molly yourself, Infi...

Be warned.

 

[mfb]

Saying "you can always go to another forum" is like saying "you can always go to another religion,"

If you don't like changing your religion (which is possible!), you should try to follow its rules.

Based on personal experiences at other forums: No, forum without moderators do not work better. Too much crap to filter and ignore personally, which can be filtered or even prevented for all readers if moderators are present.

 

[jtbell]

Sadly enough, we don't have somebody who does actual research in global warming. So we are unable to adequately moderate global warming discussions. This is why we won't allow it. We feel that not discussing something is much better than spreading inaccurate information.
We are not saying that global warming is wrong or right.

Also, global warming has become an intensely politicized issue, and some people here have strong opinions about it. We feel that in order to moderate discussions about it effectively, we need someone who not only knows the field well (preferably by being involved in research) but also is perceived by both sides as being fair.

 

[Astronuc]

Also, global warming has become an intensely politicized issue, and some people here have strong opinions about it. We feel that in order to moderate discussions about it effectively, we need someone who not only knows the field well (preferably by being involved in research) but also is perceived by both sides as being fair.

that is, one who is impartial and without a perceived political and/or personal bias.

We've actually contacted a number of experts who declined to moderate GW/CC here. Some have their own forum and/or blog, and it would be a full time effort to moderate discussions on GW/CC.

We've had great difficulty in keeping politics and personal opinion out of the scientific discussion.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Oh boy where to begin...

Actually, for most of its history the worst thing the Church did was excommunication, which is the same thing you're doing right now.

I find it pathetic and utterly repugnant that mass persecution over a long period is being compared to having rules on an Internet forum. You are denigrating the suffering and struggle of countless people when you make such melodramatic and crass comments.

Saying "you can always go to another forum" is like saying "you can always go to another religion,"

No it's like saying you're welcome to join our club so long as you abide by the rules. Nothing strange about that. It's one of the most normal attributes of human social groupings! You don't just seem to be arguing against the rules we have but against rules in general.

because anyone dominant enough to run a forum is dominant enough to abuse their position.

Nonsense. Having the necessary time, skills and dedication automatically must mean you harbour megalomaniac tendencies? That's a spurious generalisation that is nothing more than a poor attempt at arguing that we can't have rules because what's to stop the rule makers doing what they like! Well in this forum what will stop us is that if we do abuse our positions then the forum will loose members, fast. Ironically this would be the same as if we relaxed the rules as they are what allows us to, uniquely amongst science forums, keep the signal to noise ratio high.

You do not own this forum any more than the thousands of people who joined this forum before the censorship rules were even instituted.

Actually Greg owns it. He made it and it's his private property. As for "censorship" this forum has always had rules but has evolved to have better rules and enforcement more suited to what the members want. If you hadn't have already said you're leaving (and why people join to complain before leaving again is beyond me) I'd advise you to read through old threads and discussions from times when there were "theory development" and "independent research" forums which lacked rules as strict as those applied to other forums. You'll see that there were a lot of complaints because for every good idea there was there were hundreds of uninformed crackpots and weeding out all the bad took a lot of effort. If it was that simple to run an Internet forum with lax rules and still have a high standard of quality you can bet your bottom dollar that we, and every other forum out there, would be doing it.

At the end of the day we are content that we won't be able to say that a grand new theory was developed here because that's not what we are for. Ultimately our aim is to teach and discuss mainstream science to help laypeople understand and to help researchers at all stages of their career so that they can go and develop and announce that grand new theory in the right places: a lab and in peer-reviewed literature.

As it happens, this is also the largest forum on the net, and for advanced questions the only place where you're likely to get an answer. I already posted my question in half a dozen groups but no answer so far.

Just pausing on this for a second: did you not think to put two and two together and conclude that we're as good as we are thanks (in part) to the rules and moderators? Rather than in spite of them? This forum is full of intelligent, caring volunteers who admirably give their time to help others. Sure those thousands of people could probably debunk most crack pottery, help those with their own theories even if 99% of that help is explaining misunderstandings and even have a good academic discussion about a variety of topics currently banned. But they don't want to and they can't do what they want to do in an environment where those things are allowed because the site will become taken over by it.

Not trying to change this forum, anymore than I am trying to change the world in a blog post, just venting before I leave.

To me it seems you're a conflicted person with some perspective and anger issues. Conflicted because you seem to feel the need to clarify you're not trying to achieve anything and yet you've put so much energy in telling us how bad we are at what we do (even though you acknowledge we do a great job...). The issues come in the vehemence of what you've written and the odd focus you've chosen. You berate our rules without showing any acknowledgment that you've considered why they are there and what discussions have gone on in the past to lead to them. From what you've written it seems your perception of us is one of dictators who have risen in an idyllic community, seized power and started a regime of censorship and abuse when nothing cold be further from the truth. If you do come back and read this I really hope you stop and think and next time you feel the need to "vent before you leave" perhaps start by discussing things politely first rather than running screaming for the door, insulting everyone of your war. You'll find it makes for a more productive experience.

I have no more need of this forum and banning me will be purely symbolical. But the symbol will be in my favor, because I did not break any rules except to post a question about global warming.

If you had read the rules you would have known that's against the rules and that it's not a bannable offence.

People who flame are people who plan to be banned, and think that they might as well make it worth it. You provoke flaming. I was tempted to do it myself, but I'll get my point across better anyway if I don't.

Your point is flawed because you've taken no time to discuss, interact and ultimately learn from this community why it is the way it is. The fact that flaming was a consideration for you shows me how lazy you are and how content you are to wallow in your own bias. Reiterating what I've posted above it would be far more beneficial for you and others if you adopted an open approach rather than blindly labelling everyone as dictators and reaffirming your belief in how the world works. Honestly if you can't separate a private forum's rules with systematic social oppression then you need to see a professional.

So my suggestion to the moderators is this: stand down. This forum would be better of without you, and the less of you there are to the better. You're useless to this forum and your position as moderators is just a way to make you feel better about yourself. People could just block people like on Facebook, or vote to hide their posts as on Youtube. This is my last post on a forum ever. The groups on Facebook are much smaller, but they'll have to do. They'll grow. I'm not the only one who's had enough of forums.

I've said all I needed to say in response to this. The only thing I feel like adding is that ill step down as moderator when I can no longer commit or when the other mentors and members of this forum think that I should. And aside from ill thought out "vents" like this I've seen nothing to indicate the latter, rather we frequently receive praise for the work we do here in giving the members space to make a great forum.

 

[m k]

Greg owns this forum.

No, only database and portal.

 

[jhae2.718]

Some people here need to learn to read.

 

[OmCheeto]

No, only database and portal.

No. He owns this place.

Super Moderator Guide
By Greg Bernhardt | May 31, 2002

Holy Moses! The SMG is an excellent read. (saved to desktop!) Good job Greg. Did you make all that up yourself?

--------------------------------
And yes, I heard you Borek!

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Omg that was a long long time ago lol. Embarrassed! :D

 

[OmCheeto]

Omg that was a long long time ago lol. Embarrassed! :D

But you do own this place, don't you?

----------------------------
I so want to pwn that person...

Sir, um, dethfire?

 

[berkeman]

Holy Moses! The SMG is an excellent read. (saved to desktop!) Good job Greg. Did you make all that up yourself?

--------------------------------
And yes, I heard you Borek!

Great find!

But I want another title now. I'm kind of partial to "Governor"...

Find another word for moderator

Depending on your forum subject, you can get really creative about what you call your forum helpers. Over time the name "moderator" has gotten a little twisted, and has started to imply negative connotations. To provide some fun and excitement in your forum, find a neat word to call your moderators — they’ll appreciate it. Here are a few I’ve come up with:

Guide
Leader
Official
Governor
Expert
Advisor
Mentor
Helper
Staff
Officer
Sensei

 

[OmCheeto]

Great find!

But I want another title now. I'm kind of partial to "Governor"...

Being a former militaristic type person, I looked at the size of this forum, and could not comprehend how you maintained order without Generals, Admirals, Sergeants, and Corporals.

But then I found out you had Evo.

----------------------------
runs... jumps into bed... pulls covers over head...

 

[berkeman]

Being a former militaristic type person, I looked at the size of this forum, and could not comprehend how you maintained order without Generals, Admirals, Sergeants, and Corporals.

But then I found out you had Evo.

----------------------------
runs... jumps into bed... pulls covers over head...

Rapelling down from the PF helicopter now with Evo and the other Generals. You think your covers will protect you?! Hah!

 

[Drakkith]

Rapelling down from the PF helicopter now with Evo and the other Generals. You think your covers will protect you?! Hah!

Have no fear OmCheeto!
Commander Drakk is here! And I've brought my guardian beast, Sir Phinds-a-lot !
Stay in your home, for we will protect you!
Phinds, attack! Aim for the one that looks like a lumpy Salmon!

*A great battle ensues*

BTW I think we should give a someone the title of "Expert-Guide Grandmaster General of the Forums*. EGGGF. Try sounding that one out...

 

[OmCheeto]

Have no fear OmCheeto!
Commander Drakk is here! And I've brought my guardian beast, Sir Phinds-a-lot !
Stay in your home, for we will protect you!
Phinds, attack! Aim for the one that looks like a lumpy Salmon!

*A great battle ensues*

BTW I think we should give a someone the title of "Expert-Guide Grandmaster General of the Forums*. EGGGF. Try sounding that one out...

Rapelling down from the PF helicopter now with Evo and the other Generals. You think your covers will protect you?! Hah!

Ahhhh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3Cc7wlfkI

 

[jtbell]

But I want another title now.

Greg can be the Grand Pooh-Bah.

Evo can be the Lord High Executioner. (Or should that be Lady High Executioner?)

We can be Lords High Everything Else.

 

[Drakkith]

Greg can be the Grand Pooh-Bah.

Evo can be the Lord High Executioner. (Or should that be Lady High Executioner?)

We can be Lords High Everything Else.

Can I just be "Lord Drakkith"? I'll let you borrow the moat whenever you want!

 

[phinds]

Have no fear OmCheeto!
Commander Drakk is here! And I've brought my guardian beast, Sir Phinds-a-lot !
Stay in your home, for we will protect you!
Phinds, attack! Aim for the one that looks like a lumpy Salmon!

*A great battle ensues*

BTW I think we should give a someone the title of "Expert-Guide Grandmaster General of the Forums*. EGGGF. Try sounding that one out...

If anyone attacks Evo, I'm on it. If anyone attacks you, I will give them a severe talking-to. Eventually. Maybe.

 

[Drakkith]

If anyone attacks Evo, I'm on it. If anyone attacks you, I will give them a severe talking-to. Eventually. Maybe.

What if Evo was the lumpy salmon though?

 

[Evo]

What if Evo was the lumpy salmon though?

 

[Drakkith]

Look Evo, we all know we're all a little lumpy. And you do have a few things "fishy" about you. But at least you aren't phinds after a tromp in the rain. I had to spray him with a skunk just to be able to get near him.

 

[Evo]

Look Evo, we all know we're all a little lumpy. And you do have a few things "fishy" about you. But at least you aren't phinds after a tromp in the rain. I had to spray him with a skunk just to be able to get near him.

 

[harrylin]

that is, one who is impartial and without a perceived political and/or personal bias.

We've actually contacted a number of experts who declined to moderate GW/CC here. Some have their own forum and/or blog, and it would be a full time effort to moderate discussions on GW/CC.

We've had great difficulty in keeping politics and personal opinion out of the scientific discussion.

That is hardly possible, only exceptionally such persons can be found; I had no idea that such utopia was aimed at. Already the forum rules include "political" position and personal opinion. And that can't be helped. Inviting an expert on global warning as moderator implies to at least partially impose that person's opinion; but without such rules and moderation it becomes a cranky mess.
I did not see that (deleted?) thread as I was away, but thanks for the clarifications!

 

[Borg]

I'll add my voice to the list of people who disagree with you Infinitarian. This site is a quality site because of the Moderators and all of the work that they do. I also got whacked upside the head on one of my first posts but, I didn't take it as an insult or a reason to rant. I took it as a learning opportunity to understand the forum better before posting.

 

[harrylin]

Just a side note:

[..]
I find it pathetic and utterly repugnant that mass persecution over a long period is being compared to having rules on an Internet forum. You are denigrating the suffering and struggle of countless people when you make such melodramatic and crass comments. [..]

That's not what "excommunication" means. ;-)

Excommunication is the exclusion of a member from contact (communication) with the group, so that his/her opinions will not be heard anymore. That could create a social problem for that person if there are no serious alternative groups. However there are a few serious alternatives to physicsforums - and many more crappy uncensored ones.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Just a side note:

That's not what "excommunication" means. ;-)

Excommunication is the exclusion of a member from contact (communication) with the group, so that his/her opinions will not be heard anymore. That could create a social problem for that person if there are no serious alternative groups.

I'm well aware of what excommunication means and I still stand by what I said. Especially as some excomunications throughout history in small settlements would be accompanied by a public shaming and significant social problems afterwards.

JustHowever there are a few serious alternatives to physicsforums - and many more crappy uncensored ones.

You're not wrong there

 

[phinds]

I'm well aware of what excommunication means and I still stand by what I said. Especially as some excomunications throughout history in small settlements would be accompanied by a public shaming and significant social problems afterwards.

You're not wrong there

+1 on both of those statements.

 

[phinds]

What if Evo was the lumpy salmon though?

I love salmon but in Evo's case would spare her being devoured, which is what I normally do with salmon.