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Number of pi electon

  1. Apr 12, 2010 #1
    I was studying Huckel Rule. And I stuck on one of the point.

    (iv) The total number of pi electrons in the molecular species or ion should be 4n + 2 where n = 0, 1, 2, ................... etc.


    But I don't know how to calculate the number of pi electron. Do you have any idea about it.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 12, 2010 #2

    Borek

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    Staff: Mentor

    You need to know structure of the molecule and types of bonds between atoms. If you know the first, the second should be a breeze.

    --
    methods
     
  4. Apr 12, 2010 #3
    I know there are three types of bonds i.e., single bond, double bond and triple bond. I'll also have structure. for instance take the structure of benzene. Now how to calculate the number of pi electrons?
     
  5. Apr 13, 2010 #4

    Char. Limit

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    Well, you know that it's going to equal 4n+2 for some integer n.

    Then you can just count them, as long as you know the structure.

    Take Benzene... the structure has been ingrained into my head by now, might be the same for you. How many pi electrons does it have?

    Hint: How does bonding work between carbons?
     
  6. Apr 13, 2010 #5
    6 pi electron in Benzene..!!
     
  7. Apr 13, 2010 #6
    and in Huckle's rule n=1.
     
  8. Apr 13, 2010 #7
    [PLAIN]http://csrchem2005.bootsglobal.com/library/benzene.gif[/CENTER] [Broken]

    Here is the structure for benzene. Rohit, I know that benzene has 6 pi electron but I need to know how to calculate it. Benzene is the simplest structure in our course and I'm going to face lot more complicated structures so I need to know the exact method to calculate not the theoretical data.​
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  9. Apr 13, 2010 #8
    I can see that there are three double bonds so should I think that each double bond contribute two pi electron to molecule?
     
  10. Apr 13, 2010 #9

    Borek

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    Do you think you have helped OP? I doubt.

    Do you care to explain how you calculated pi electrons in benzene to give an example?
     
  11. Apr 13, 2010 #10
    Oh Borek Sir I didn't mean to say that...!!!
    Very Sorry Sir :(
    One double bond is equivalent to 2 pi electrons so 3[double bonds]*2[electrons] = 6 pi electrons
     
  12. Apr 13, 2010 #11
    Yes you are correct snshusat161..!!
     
  13. Apr 13, 2010 #12

    Char. Limit

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    Careful, though, the double bonds that are part of the conjugated system are the only ones that count towards Hückel's Rule.

    So, if you had an ethylene group on the benzene, that wouldn't count towards Hückel's Rule.
     
  14. Apr 13, 2010 #13
    Do you mean Huckel's Rule is applicable only to planar molecules. And what bout triple bond. How many pi electrons are there?
     
  15. Apr 13, 2010 #14
    since 2 bonds contribute two pi electron so three bonds must contribute 3 pi electron but single bond doesn't contribute 1 pi electron so I think both the pi electrons are from the second bond in double bond. So triple bond must contribute 4 pi electron. Am I right?
     
  16. Apr 13, 2010 #15

    Char. Limit

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    Actually, no.

    It has to do with the configuration of the third bond in the triple bond. The second bonds all stick "up" from the main molecule. This allows them to lie in the same plane. The third bonds stick "out" from the main molecule, and thus can't lie in the same plane.

    So a triple bond contributes 2 pi electrons.
     
  17. Apr 13, 2010 #16
    Thanks Char. Limit!
    You mean that the compounds containing triple bonds are not planar? This means that I can't use Huckel's Rule with compounds containing triple bond.
     
  18. Apr 13, 2010 #17

    Char. Limit

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    Oh no, they're still planar. It's just that the third bond doesn't count towards Hückel's Rule.

    Look up Benzyne for a cool example of a non-linear triple bond in a molecule that obeys Hückel's Rule.
     
  19. Apr 13, 2010 #18
    Last two questions.

    (1) What is the affect of positive and negative charge on number of pi electrons?

    (2) One of the compound containing six pi electron is given "Not Aromatic".

    20070929163813!Cycloheptatriene.png

    Reason: Cycloheptatriene contains 6 pi electrons but the electrons are only delocalized over six carbon atoms and not over all the seven carbon atoms of the ring. Further more it is not planar. Therefore, it is not aromatic and behaves like a typical alkene undergoing electrophilic addition reaction.

    Can You explain me this. Everything going above my head without leaving a single trace of meaning behind.
     
  20. Apr 13, 2010 #19

    Char. Limit

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    All right, I'm pretty sure I can explain this.

    One of the requirements for aromaticity is a cyclic, conjugated system of pi electrons. Now, what does this mean?

    Conjugated refers to a system of alternating single and double bonds. Beta-Carotene is a good example of a conjugated system. However, for a system of pi electrons to be cyclic conjugated, the alternating single and double bonds must go in a circle without
    end, creating a ring of pi electrons above the molecule. A quick look at cycloheptatriene shows this; there are two single bonds in a row, so it's not cyclic conjugated.

    Hope this helps.
     
  21. Apr 13, 2010 #20
    Sir may I know the structures of A-Carotene...??
     
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