We are chemical reactions walking around in a bag. We do not have free will.
phoenixthoth said:I agree with that but how does one rule out the notion that physics equations predict how every iota of reality will behave, including the electrons and neurotransmitters in our brains which, presumably, are that which makes the choices you mentioned?
In a world where everything can be predicted, there is no free will except that induced by ignorance of the future would make it seem like genuine free will.
But then again, doesn't the uncertainty principle imply that not everything can be predicted already, thus lending credibility to the notion of free will?
bola said:think about it, every pattern in the universe is its own closed system, so a human is a closed system in itself.
which means the human is the only one making the decision.
you can't "blame" these actions on a deterministic system, simply because the person has emotions and thoughts that reflect what these actions consequences will be.
g[x] said:I beg to differ... this could be construed as offtopic, but this is a very flawed assumption. Human beings are in no way closed systems. .
Rybo said:Loops Quantum gravity theoretical physicist Lee Smolin is on this page along with others.
g[x] said:Lee Smolin wrote The Elegant Universe, one of my favs. Good stuff.
Rybo said:No Gx, Lee Smolins only other book is "Life of the Cosmos" (an evolving physical and metaphyscial Universe) with a less determinant(more free will-like) facets/aspects type of Uiverse and more evolutionary
Brian Green wrote "The Elegant Universe" and his last book "the Fabric of the Cosmos". There hs states "Free will is a tricky issue, even absent the complicating factor of time travel" He goes on to say he is convince in a deterministic Universe.
g[x] said:My apologies, you are absolutely correct. I have a hellacious cold and am not in possession of my full faculties. Thank you for correcting that... I did mean to say "Life of the Cosmos." Bah, I hate being sick... :grumpy:
Rybo said:No need to apologize for minor error Gx.
Free will and placebos ergo mind over matter, to some degree, is a real phenomena as proved by experiments.
Im always amazed at these blind placebo experiments were people get better from there illness, real or illusionary, from merely believing the pill they have been given i swell knon to solve their proble.
g[x] said:Fascinating indeed. What scientific method is there to quantize belief? The logical side brings to mind possible effects of hormonal activity, caused by strong emotion or stress, which in turn might cause various chemical changes inducing some kind of psychosomatic response, seemingly a spontaneous immunal reaction... but the link between where thoughts of presumed effects originates, implanted by another or created on one's own, and where the actual biochemical responses occur, remains elusive.
In any case, goodwill never seemed to hurt... and neither did a little honey.
Icebreaker said:We are chemical reactions walking around in a bag. We do not have free will.
Problem+Solve=Reason said:I've have never heard of a chemical reaction wanting to do up their hair so they look nice, or want to be with another chemical reaction because that chemical reaction makes them feel good about their outward appearance. Nor have I seen a chemical reaction find beuty in the world, or make up an interpersonal idea that his being is simply a chemical reaction.
----- nwO ruoY evaH ,deeN oN <----?eeS I tahW eeS uoY oD