On removing little self taint from messages received from the source

[phoenixthoth]

i was receiving messages from the source but up until now, my little self often tainted the message. this is what i have learned about removing the little self taint.

first of all, when you receive a message from the source, which is God, you feel absolutely still and silent. but the stillness and silence (ie absence of thought and images) seems to be FORCED upon you, and not what you are choosing. when you experience it for the first time, you will know what I'm talking about. i find that my eyes automatically close. others have found themselves crumpled on the floor. it can be a quite uncomfortable feeling. know that this is a direct link to God. there are no words exchanged, no images transferred. just this unnatural-feeling silence. the mind is not used to being still.

the little self for whatever reason feels a need to try to intrude upon this silence by thinking. you can disrupt the connection, if you desire, by thinking, at any time, if it makes you feel uncomfortable. know that thinking during the transmission is precisely how the little self taints the message. so if you don't want to taint the message, don't try thinking. let yourself be still and silent for as long as it takes. you will find it easy to be still, easier than it ever has been. it has never taken me more than 15 seconds, a period during which I've described as feeling in a bubble or being underwater.

and then you will find the connection terminate by itself.

then it comes to you. BAMN. that is the message. God's silent understanding gets transferred to you by a process i call induction. your little self will not know how to interpret this silent understanding into the right words. but your higher self will. so you must think from your higher self perspective, not your little self perspective.

how do you do this? well, this is what worked for me: i first developed my connection to my higher self. i wrote down "what do i need to know at this time?" and i let myself auto-write an answer. i absolutely didn't filter or censor or judge what is written. if nothing comes, then i suspect you have serious obstacles in contacting your higher self, obstacles i don't know how to help you with. now what you write is probably from the higher self but with little self taint. the less censoring and the less thinking you do about the writing and the more you just let it happen, the more likely it is coming from the higher self without little self taint.

so far, you have learned how to contact the higher self. this is excellent progress. you will already see that it changes your life. you know how to *write* from your higher self perspective. the next step is to *think* from your higher self perspective. in order to get this far, you have to do a lot of writing from the higher self perspective but hopefully it won't take too long. if you've followed the steps thusfar carefully, your thoughts will not be tainted by the little self. what you thought was you will be a fading memory but in reality, *you* are the collective of the little self, the higher self, and the true self.

good. once you can remove little self taint from your higher self thoughts and writings, you then automatically know how to remove little self taint from messages from the source.

and the things that will be revealed to you will be profound.

in essence, I'm trying to teach you how to become what some would call a prophet, one who can receive messages from God. i know this sounds crazy and outlandish but do not dismiss it lightly. do not dismiss it just on the basis that it sounds crazy and outlandish. i was programmed to think it was both of those in the past and that is exactly why i have failed to remove the taint from the source.

before you dismiss it, try it and see if it works for you. come on, i know there's a question you always wanted to ask God. now's your chance. i know it can be scary to take that chance. believe me, I've been terrified during this whole process and it wasn't as smooth for me as i explain it to you. i wished there was a document out there like this back when i was trying to figure it out. well, now it's here and I'm curious to know what messages you receive from the source.

if you can't receive messages from the source, then try reading my article on "how the God connection can be established," posted elsewhere on this board.

enjoy!

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix

 

[steppenwolf]

i am impressed, quite so

but... i like the stain of self, it separates me from the dimensionless, i don't want to lose myself, for then, who knows what i would find?

 

[phoenixthoth]

you actually gain parts of yourself formerly "lost". when you write from your higher self perspective, you can see that you have an amazing resource to tap into. and then another resource after that, this one straight from the source, which is my less contraversial way of saying God.

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix

 

[Kerrie]

phoenix, have you read anything by ken carey?

 

[phoenixthoth]

"phoenix, have you read anything by ken carey?"

no. do his writings coincide with what i write about?

cheers,
phoenix

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
"phoenix, have you read anything by ken carey?"

no. do his writings coincide with what i write about?

cheers,
phoenix

yes

starseed transmissions from ken carey

 

[phoenixthoth]

interesting.

i find it interesting that although i have subscribed to this topic, i never received an email notifying me that you put a reply up. let me try to keep this topic alive.

"starseed transmissions" is a romantic way of putting it, one that i admire.

can you summarize for me so that i don't have to read it (i'm lazy). what has ken done to further the direction of this angle of research; what tools does he have to offer for receiving these transmissions? what is the nature of his (assumingly) writing exercises or meditative exercises? finally, what have been his transmissions received?

thanks for the heads up!

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix

 

[Dark Wing]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
first of all, when you receive a message from the source, which is God, you feel absolutely still and silent. but the stillness and silence (ie absence of thought and images) seems to be FORCED upon you, and not what you are choosing. when you experience it for the first time, you will know what I'm talking about. i find that my eyes automatically close. others have found themselves crumpled on the floor. it can be a quite uncomfortable feeling. know that this is a direct link to God. there are no words exchanged, no images transferred. just this unnatural-feeling silence. the mind is not used to being still.

I am aware of what you are talking about, but what is it that makes you claim that it is a message from God that you are receiving? there are many explanations for what you have just described, and many without a God involved. I personally, do believe in the existence of God, but I also believe that we are not receiving messages from him. Maybe this is what is stopping me from truly understanding what is happening during these moments. This mind is not used to being still, but in stillness there is solace. within this solace, where you have quieted the 'self taint' as you call it, there is much you can find once you are out of the meditation. but this not need be anything that God is involved with. You may claim that you 'just know'. but this is an unfounded claim. Once you have received this, you say you are what is to be known as a prophet. what would you say this? you can just choose to ask God a question and he will reply? maybe, I will concede to that, but certainly not in the way that you claim. I thought God was meant to choose his prophets, not the other way around. we have some say over a Gods action? would you say that this God is outside the material realm?

then it comes to you. BAMN. that is the message. God's silent understanding gets transferred to you by a process i call induction. your little self will not know how to interpret this silent understanding into the right words. but your higher self will. so you must think from your higher self perspective, not your little self perspective.

this higher self of which you speak... why could this not just be your own mind trying to sort itself out? one need not bring in other dimensions into it, and claim all kinds of things about higher realms to understand what you are talking about here. I am a materialist, yes, (what’s worse a bit of an identity theorist) but I understand and do know what you are talking about. there are other explanations. I am not saying that the presence of other explanations make your opinion on what you have experienced wrong, all I am saying is that there must be a better way to prove your opinion to others then to say "know that this is a connection with God". unless you can in someway verify this, do not unnecessarily put yourself up as an authority in an issue. All you can do is present your argument and your proofs, not presume what you are claiming is right. that is not the point of a discussion forum. The inability to question your claim makes your belief dogma, and that’s not what philosophy is about.

if you can't receive messages from the source, then try reading my article on "how the God connection can be established," posted elsewhere on this board.

when you post absolutes instead of reason arguments, you will convert people to what you are saying via emotional manipulation. of course people want to contact God and ask questions of him. So they will try this tactic of yours. and when they discover that they cannot, you have created and demolished a hope within them that can destroy them. This is not your intention, you truly believe that all people can contact God. but what is the fate of those who cannot, no matter how they try? Thankfully I do not believe there are many in this forum who will just take your word for it. I am worried about those who cannot see your lack of reasoning.

 

[phoenixthoth]

there are definitely other explanations for what is going on here. so why would i choose the God explanation? to me, it seems the simplest explanation that fits all the facts. this doesn't invalidate other theories and it is not meant to. there is no competition here. if other theories fit, then by all means, put stock in them if that's what brings you peace, love, and bliss.

this is what has worked for me and others and the evidence suggests that it won't work for everyone. know that i spent about two months of alomst daily efforts before i had almost any results. so if you try the exercises and nothing comes out from your higher self (much less God), then you'll either give up the effort to know yourself better or you'll keep trying. from a teaching point of view, i can't attach myself to your successes or lack thereof; I've already done all i know how to try to indicate what you can do.

a very good book that helped me along the way was a book called "the eye of the i, from which nothing is hidden." there is no mention of the concepts higher self or true self. it is one man's account of what the experience of completely detaching from the ego is like while having experiences that would lead one to believe that they are close to God. the book was written by a psychologist (or psychiatrist). http://64.177.173.162/powervsforce/

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix

 

[Royce]

Dark Wing,
I spent years meditating, learning to quieten my mind and little self. All along I benifited from this meditation. I would have insights into myself, my family and those near me. My understanding deepened, my anger subided and my willingness to accept grew. Then gradually as I became quieter and more at peace with myself and my world, I became aware of another presence there with me as I meditated. I also became aware of a door that was there open for me if I dared go through. I knew that if I ever went through that door, I and my life would never be the same and there was never anyway of going back.

My little self was afraid and tried to distract me and scare me to keep me from going throught the door. That way may lead to insanity. I might get lost and never be able to find my way back. I would lose myself, my identity. During all this time the presence grew and became more and more reassuring and gave me the courage and confidence to one day step through the door.

I am not the same person that stepped throught that door. I still have a very long way to go but now the path is well defined and well lit and I know what to expect and what at least in principle lies ahead.

The presence became well known to me and I see my true self and see my everyday self getting better and better as I get rid of all the negative energy and excess baggage that I have accumulated over my life and gain in understanding and insight. The presence reveals itself to me as God. A personal aspect or part of God that is within me and is my personal mentor and guide. We all have this within us. It is not the all powerful, wrathful, fearful, mighty God of scriptures or burning bushes but the God of David, the loving nurturing God of the psalms.

We ask and we are given what we need to know and what we can know and understand at that time. "Ask and ye shall receive." This is what we do and this is what happens on a personal level. God may choose his prophets and reveal mighty things to them but if we choose God he reveals that which we personally need to know to grow and become one at peace with ourselves and our God.

I did not intend for this to happen. I did not ask for this to happen. I did not know that this would happen. I had no need, no understanding, no faith or belief nor any desire for this to happen. I was led step by step to my God and I struggled and fought every step of the way. Teacher after teacher was provided as I grew to need and become ready for that teacher at that time.

How do we know that it is God and not our mind? Because he told us so and left no room for doupt. I know it is God better than I know that I am me. When it happens to you, you too will know.

 

[Zero]

I'm thinking you are receiving 'messages' from yourself, and nowhere else. If you remove the 'taint', there will be no message at all.

 

[Royce]

Originally posted by Zero
I'm thinking you are receiving 'messages' from yourself, and nowhere else. If you remove the 'taint', there will be no message at all.

That, Zero, is exactly what we (I?) feared. It is not true. It is only by quieting the taint, ego, that we can "hear" the messages. It is only by learning acceptance that we know and understand what they mean and all of there implications. As long as 'I' kept shouting "I am!", I never heard a thing. I still shout it every once in while; but not nearly so loud nor so often.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Royce
That, Zero, is exactly what we (I?) feared. It is not true. It is only by quieting the taint, ego, that we can "hear" the messages. It is only by learning acceptance that we know and understand what they mean and all of there implications. As long as 'I' kept shouting "I am!", I never heard a thing. I still shout it every once in while; but not nearly so loud nor so often.

I think you are engaging in wishful thinking. Your subconscious is talking to your consciousness, but it is all you talking to you.

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by Zero
I think you are engaging in wishful thinking. Your subconscious is talking to your consciousness, but it is all you talking to you.

Note that there are many good reasons for believing that the ego is not to be equated with the entire mind. Thus, Royce's message can be relevant and meaningful even if it is 'just' ideas coming from his subconscious. This still amounts to a transcendence, or at least a valid and meaningful reconceptualization, of the ego and its existential place in the world.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by hypnagogue
Note that there are many good reasons for believing that the ego is not to be equated with the entire mind. Thus, Royce's message can be relevant and meaningful even if it is 'just' ideas coming from his subconscious. This still amounts to a transcendence, or at least a valid and meaningful reconceptualization, of the ego and its existential place in the world.

I've never claimed that meditation and self-hypnosis cannot be useful or enlightening, I just feel it is useful to avoid the hubris of claiming to be in touch with a 'higher power', when teh evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by Zero
I've never claimed that meditation and self-hypnosis cannot be useful or enlightening, I just feel it is useful to avoid the hubris of claiming to be in touch with a 'higher power', when teh evidence suggests otherwise.

I certainly understand and sympathize with this sentiment. However, I can also sympathize with Royce's. I think there is an obfuscation here between the subjective and objective notions of God. We can't really make any claims of an objective, omnipotent, omniscient etc. God either way. The higher states of subjective spirituality, however, tend to reveal a state of consciousness that is universally described as divine, God, or God-like. These words are only rough approximations; the only way to know what I am trying to say with them is for an individual to get at least a hint of that experience for him/herself. Having tasted a hint of it myself, I can understand why one would describe it in such terms; it really is the best way of succinctly getting across the essentially ineffible qualities of the experience with our limited vocabulary. One runs into philosophical problems when one attempts to conjoin the subjective and objective notions of God, but the subjective notion taken by itself, at least, is a valid one.

 

[Royce]

Zero, it is hardly hubris. It is a very humbling experience whether it is God or not. It is no more my subconscious talking to me than when I read what you have written. I get new and deeper understanding and find answers to questions on my mind. You can deny it all you want but until it happens to you, you can have no idea of what the experience is like or what it may or may not mean. Other who have had similar experiences all say nearly the same thing.
What evidence suggests otherwise?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Royce
Zero, it is hardly hubris. It is a very humbling experience whether it is God or not. It is no more my subconscious talking to me than when I read what you have written. I get new and deeper understanding and find answers to questions on my mind. You can deny it all you want but until it happens to you, you can have no idea of what the experience is like or what it may or may not mean. Other who have had similar experiences all say nearly the same thing.
What evidence suggests otherwise?

They all say the same thing because it is a function of the brain's architecture, not because it comes from a higher source. Again, I am not discounting the intensity of the feeling, I just disagree as to its source.

And why do you folks all think that good things have to come from outside of yourself? I swear, it is the same sort of weird pride and self-abasement that confuses me.

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by Zero
And why do you folks all think that good things have to come from outside of yourself? I swear, it is the same sort of weird pride and self-abasement that confuses me.

It's nothing to do with pride or self-abasement. If you experience the unitive ego-less state one day you will understand. Simply put, it is an experience that is simultaneously profoundly peaceful and ecstatically rapturous. It involves a deep-seated feeling of unity with the universe and the unshakable sense that 'everything is in its right place.' These feelings are not comparable with normal ego-bound pleasures in that they are indescribably more powerful and profound than one's analogous run-of-the-mill everyday experiences of peace, rapture, unity, awe, etc., and they are not perceived as "happening to" a distinct individual as much as they are simply perceived as existing in their own right. This set of perceptions and feelings is expressed as divine or God-like. Thus, spiritually inclined people will talk about supressing or going beyond the ego not as a form of strange religious self-abasement but simply because it is recognized as the principal means of achieving this wonderful state of consciousness.

 

[phoenixthoth]

"They all say the same thing because it is a function of the brain's architecture, not because it comes from a higher source. Again, I am not discounting the intensity of the feeling, I just disagree as to its source."

is it the case that the brain's architecture is well understood?

is it the case that God is well understood?

the attribution of a higher power to these states of consciousness seems to open a can of worms for you, zero. i barely understand why this is although i understand somewhat for i once was an agnostic for ten years after abandoning my then unjustified faith in God.

through a book other than the bible, i encoutered a scientific minded man who had clearly transcendent states of consciousness and who attributed those states as being closer to God. when i read the book, i was unsure as to whether there was a God but i sought to see if i could have those states of consciousness without being sure that there is a God. i basically had the attitude of this: God, if you're out there, show yourself in a clear way.

an important tool i have ommitted from my previous writings (i think) is journalling my progress AND lack thereof. often, i would simply state that i am unaware of any changes in my consciousness. then it all changed with an increase in dream activity and the rest is history. i have tried to skip my personal experience as much as possible, including my own set backs, because they would most likely just lead someone down the same road i went down which was rather ungraceful.

so, for now, see how many transcendent experiences you can have without attributing them to any source. then, once you have them, make up your mind, if possible, as to the source of the changes. in the end, it may not be important at all what the source is.

some people have flexible views on what a higher power is. I'm drawing on what i know from the twelve step program for addiction recovery. I've heard that anything can be a higher power, from a rock, to a remote control, to God, to the universe itself, to love. perhaps you find it erroneous to attribute newfound strength to an outside source when, in fact, this strength is actually within us all but as yet is not tapped into. there are different kinds of strength: strength offered by the little self (ego), strength offered by the higher self, strength offered by the true self (soul), and the strength offered by outside tools and higher powers.

as an aside, I'm not suggesting that worship, charity works, church attendence, "excessive" meditation, "excessive" prayer or blind acceptance of dogma are useful in attaining transcendant states. those things may work for some, but not for me.

i'm also not suggesting that transcendant states of consciousness are necessary for some modicum of happiness or peace of mind in life. having said that, I've had transcendant states lasting for only 15 seconds that have in themselves had a profound impact on my life, changing the whole course of my life. the three principle "feelings" i experience, to profound degrees, are these: peace, love, and bliss.

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix

 

[Royce]

Zero most of us who have had these experience say over and over again until we are blue in the face that it all comes from within us and it is within all of us including you. We are not alone. It is one of the main tenets of some forms of Buddhism and Zen that it all lies within all of us and if it is seen as outside or from an outside source then it is wrong and not a true experience.

 

[phoenixthoth]

outside comments

this is from someone off this board:
"I read through the posts you sent me. Reminds me a lot of the earlier thoughts I had before the truth. When it comes to the concept of God, don't be an expert. Be a quite student... The Jewish people avoid saying the name of almighty as much as posible. This is from years of experience. Your chosen word that describes everything, you included, is deminished everytime you say it. If you use this word in a sentence, your heart reflects your true understanding upon it. Its like filling a closed room full of smoke. In other words, don't use the Lords name in vain, which there are many.
I also noticed that Jesus is not a popular word in the descussion. Now some don't believe he is who he says he is. Thats ok because, everyone comes to the understanding eventually. A man offered himself before all existence as a sacrafice for all man kind. Nobody ever did that before Jesus and nobody did that after Jesus. Its my belief that he is the most spiritually gift person to come upon this earth. Think about it. Would you have the curage to do what he did? This is why it is wise to base your entire spiritual foundation upon the image of Jesus Christ."

this way my reply:
"it seems that you have drawn the conclusion that i think I'm an expert on God. did i say this anywhere?

there are many kinds of students and many kinds of classrooms. i have one particular type of classroom in mind in the same vein as a seminar in mathematics taught at UC berkeley. there would be a few students interested in the same constellation of pursuits. they would spend much time outside class and investigate on their own good papers on their subjects and then present the results (and methods) to the rest of the students like a talk. each student would become the teacher for a day. in fact, there was no set teacher, only an advisor who had little to do with directing the inquiry. the students were essentially free to study and present what they willed.

if there was an expert on God, i would gladly attend his or her class and listen to what they have to say. but who is to say who is an expert on God? the masses? you? me?

much can be learned from jesus indeed. but jesus only hints that God can be "seen" right here, right now, on earth, by us simple mortals. God can direct our paths if we aknowledge it, if we know how to listen with a "pure" "ear." on the subject of jesus, I've attached the gnostic gospel of thomas [that's at http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html ] which you may be familiar with. there is no way to know for certain (if anything is for certain) if jesus really said the things "thomas" claimed he said. the same applies to the gospel of matthew, mark, luke, and john, indeed.

i disagree with your assessment that i have taken the lord's name in vain. interesting that you recommend mentioning the name as little as possible for i have sometimes chosen to call it "the source."

"A man offered himself before all existence as a sacrafice for all man kind. Nobody ever did that before Jesus and nobody did that after Jesus."

i am highly skeptical of the second statement. there are many, swiftly labeled as lunatics, who say that they are the second coming of christ and that they must follow the same path as jesus. society makes sure their word doesn't get out by giving them shock therapy to erase such notions and by giving them labels that are only variations and more precise versions of the word lunatic. who will listen to a lunatic, indeed? a lunatic couldn't even run for mayor, much less be appealed to on how to save the world. there are a lot of people out there who think they can save the world. i was even told in church that everyone has an inner jesus, waiting to come out. I've modified this part so that not one person will come and save the world all by him/herself but that all has a part to play, a role their soul signed up for before they were born. God can help assist one in finding out what that role is. my role is a far cry from attaining expert status on God; rather, it includes obtaining working knowledge of it.

on that note, 2000 years after jesus, especially with the conflict between the americans and certain islamic people, what ultimate good has come from jesus' early death at the hands of the romans? wouldn't it have been better for him to lay just a bit lower and write his message down in his own words in a fashion that would at least make him more appealing to jews and those worshipping pagan gods and idols? but then i guess the problem is that the bible would be even longer and would require even more patience to read...

"Would you have the curage to do what he did?"

i'd like to point out that jesus himself barely had the courage to do it. he at one point thought that God had forsaken him; this was his little self speaking. my little self has very little courage but my higher self has no need for courage; so, in essence, it has infinite courage. so does your higher self. it has no need for courage because it knows it is beyond injury or pain.

the conventional wisdom dictates that one's entire spiritual foundation should rest on jesus. while jesus was an oustanding being, truly a representative of God, I'm not limiting myself to just jesus. I'm also trying to incorperate and synthesize other points of view (the buddhist point of view, for example).


may your journey be graceful,
phoenix"

 

[Dark Wing]

Royce, I do not dispute the usefulness of meditation. I myself have been meditating in various forms since the age of 4; it has always been a natural part of my life. The absolute peace you can find beyond yourself, and beyond this 'little man' as you call it, its remarkable, and without words to express, I agree.

Getting rid of negative energy in order to gain insight... yes, this can be achieved. But this does not imply a spirit, nor that it is God that you are talking to. But I can't argue this point at all, our concepts of what a God is and can be are very different. As far as God being the 'simplest' explanation (as phoenixthoth suggests) I would probably dispute this entirely. But that again is not a reason to believe or disbelieve the source you believe it to be, I can’t say I am a fan of Occom's Razor in a contingent world.

As for FEELING as it was from God... as a subjective experience... no one could dispute this. If it makes sense to describe it that way to you, then this is what you choose. I choose an explanation more brain based. But I do not believe that it takes away anything from the experience.

Other then that, I have nothing to say that hypnagogue has not.

 

[phoenixthoth]

it seems like everything we experience is brain based, but that doesn't mean the brain is the source of the phenomena...

cheers,
phoenix

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Royce
Zero most of us who have had these experience say over and over again until we are blue in the face that it all comes from within us and it is within all of us including you. We are not alone. It is one of the main tenets of some forms of Buddhism and Zen that it all lies within all of us and if it is seen as outside or from an outside source then it is wrong and not a true experience.

Hmmmm...so you think there are fairies inside you?

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by phoenixthoth
it seems like everything we experience is brain based, but that doesn't mean the brain is the source of the phenomena...

cheers,
phoenix

But, unless you can show proof otherwise, the logical conclusion is that the brain is the source.

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by Zero
Hmmmm...so you think there are fairies inside you?

No offense Zero, but it seems as if you're particularly fond of taking an ignorant approach to this discussion and not listening to what people say. There are no fairies or even any metaphysics being discussed here, at least not in the claims Royce and I are currently making. What is being discussed is an alternate mode of consciousness. You know yourself that alternate modes of consciousness exist, since you dream when you sleep. There are many, many alternate modes of consciousness, and the spiritual experience we are describing is simply one of the many.

 

[phoenixthoth]

"But, unless you can show proof otherwise, the logical conclusion is that the brain is the source."

my brain evidently processes signals sent along my optic nerves suggesting to me that there is a computer screen before me. are you saying that the brain is the source of this perception, or the computer screen?

in fact, how would you prove anything is sourced inside or outside?

the computer screen feels to be outside my brain. that could be a misperception.

the messages from "the source" feel to be outside my brain. that could be a misperception.

i don't know what else i have to go on besides what my perceptions tell me.

cheers,
phoenIx