Is This Nonlinear O.D.E. Solvable?

  • Thread starter asdf1
  • Start date
In summary, In case 1 of an ODE of the form:y' = \frac{{ax + by + c}}{{a'x + b'y + c'}}consider the nominator and denominator as 2 lines.Case 1: they intersect -> substitute so you move the intersection to the origine to lose the constant term, making it homogenous.Case 2: they're parallel -> there is a k that you can factor out (like in this case) to get the same coefficients in x and y, substitue for that expression.In summary,In case 1 of an ODE of the form:y' = \frac{{ax +
  • #1
asdf1
734
0
for this O.D.E.
y`= (1-2y-4x)/(1+y+2x)
how do you treat it?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
[tex]y' = \frac{{1 - 2y - 4x}}{{1 + y + 2x}} = \frac{{ - 2\left( { - {\raise0.5ex\hbox{$\scriptstyle 1$}
\kern-0.1em/\kern-0.15em
\lower0.25ex\hbox{$\scriptstyle 2$}} + y + 2x} \right)}}{{1 + y + 2x}}[/tex]

Now try the substitution [tex]u = y + 2x[/tex], it should become separable.
 
  • #3
how'd you think of making that substitution?
 
  • #4
It's a typical strategy for ODE's of the form:

[tex]y' = \frac{{ax + by + c}}{{a'x + b'y + c'}}[/tex]

Consider the nominator and denominator as 2 lines.

Case 1: they intersect -> substitute so you move the intersection to the origine to lose the constant term, making it homogenous

Case 2: they're parallel -> there is a k that you can factor out (like in this case) to get the same coefficients in x and y, substitue for that expression.
 
  • #5
wow! thank you very much! :)
 
  • #6
No problem :smile:

In a bit more detail, in case 1 (intersecting lines), search the point of intersection, I'll call it [itex]\left( {x_0 ,y_0 } \right)[/itex]

Then do the substitution:

[tex]\left\{ \begin{array}{l}
x = u + x_0 \\
y = v + y_0 \\
\end{array} \right[/tex]

The DE will become homogenous. The other case (parallel) is the one that applies to your problem and it will make the DE separable.
 
  • #7
ok~ great! :)
 
  • #8
The way I would have done y`= (1-2y-4x)/(1+y+2x) is to rewrite it as

(1+ y+ 2x)dy+ (4x+ 2y-1)dx= 0. This is an "exact" equation.
 
  • #9
then (1+y+2x)dy=-(4x+ 2y-1)dx
but then when you integrate both sides,
say on the left side, what do you do with "2x"? is it still possible to integrate that?
 
  • #10
No, I did not intend that you try to integrate the two parts separately- not only is there a "2x" in the "dy" term but there is a "2y" in the "dx" term.

I said this was an exact equation. That means that the "differential form"
(1+ y+ 2x)dy+ (4x+ 2y-1)dx (and I want them on the same side of the equation!) IS an exact differential- that is, there exist some function F(x,y) so that
dF= (1+ y+ 2x)dy+ (4x+ 2y- 1)dx. That, in turn, means that
[tex]\frac{\partial F}{\partial x}= 4x+ 2y- 1[/tex] and
[tex]\frac{\partial F}{\partial y}= 1+ y+ 2x[/tex].
Since the "partial derivative of F with respect to x" treats y as if it were a constant, an "anti-partial-derivative" of that first would give F(x,y)=2x2+ 2xy- x+ g(y). Notice that, since we are treating y as a constant here, the "constant of integration could be any function of y- that's the "g(y)".

Now differentiate that with respect to y:
[tex]2x+ g'(y)= \frac{\partial F}{\partial y}= 1+ y+ 2x[/tex].
Fortunately for us, the "2x" terms on each side cancel (that's because this was an "exact differential") leaving g'(y)= 1+ y so that g(y)= y+ (1/2)y2+ C.
Putting that into the previous function, F(x,y)= 2x2+ 2xy- x+ y+ (1/2)y2+ C.

The original equation was "dF= 0" so F(x,y)= constant. Including the "C" above in that constant, 2x2+ 2xy- x+ y+ (1/2)y2= C is the general solution to the differential equation.
 
  • #11
Of course, I forgot to check whether it was exact :blushing:

If it's not though, the method I described above works for any of these types in general.
 
  • #12
thank you very much for explaining! :)
 
  • #13
hmm... here's my work:
suppose v= y+2x
=> v`= y`+2
so y`= (1-2v)/(1+v)
=> v`= 3/(1+v)
=> (1+v)dv = 3dx
=> v+(v^2)/2 = 2x+c
=> y+2x +(y^2 +4xy + 4x^2)/2 = 3x +c
however, the correct answer should be 2y - 2x + (y+2x)^2=c
does anybody know where my calculations went wrong?
 
Last edited:
  • #14
If

[tex]y' = \frac{{1 - 2y - 4x}}{{1 + y + 2x}} = \frac{{ - 2\left( { - {\raise0.5ex\hbox{$\scriptstyle 1$}
\kern-0.1em/\kern-0.15em
\lower0.25ex\hbox{$\scriptstyle 2$}} + y + 2x} \right)}}{{1 + y + 2x}}[/tex]

Then using [itex]u = y + 2x \Leftrightarrow y = u - 2x \Leftrightarrow y' = u' - 2[/itex] gives

[tex]u' - 2 = \frac{{ - 2\left( { - {\raise0.5ex\hbox{$\scriptstyle 1$}
\kern-0.1em/\kern-0.15em
\lower0.25ex\hbox{$\scriptstyle 2$}} + u} \right)}}{{1 + u}} \Leftrightarrow u' = \frac{{1 - 2u}}{{1 + u}} + 2 = \frac{3}{{u + 1}}[/tex]

I believe you forgot that -2 after substituting y'.

But as HallsofIvy said, you can solve this as an exact DE too.
 
  • #15
sorry, i mistyped~
@@a
the result is still the same as yours, though...
so there's still some place that went wrong?
 
  • #16
Your answer seems correct, it's just not in the same form I think.
Solved for y, both solutions give (apart from a factor 2 for the constant, but that's still a constant):

[tex]y = \pm \sqrt {6x + c + 1} - 2x - 1[/tex]
 
  • #17
ok, thank you very much! :)
 

What is an ODE?

An ODE, or ordinary differential equation, is a mathematical equation that describes the relationship between a function and its derivative. It is commonly used to model physical phenomena in fields such as physics, engineering, and biology.

What is the difference between a first-order and second-order ODE?

A first-order ODE involves only the first derivative of the unknown function, while a second-order ODE involves the second derivative. In general, an n-th order ODE involves the n-th derivative.

What are some real-world applications of ODEs?

ODEs are used in many fields to model a wide range of phenomena, such as population growth, chemical reactions, heat transfer, and electrical circuits. They are also commonly used in engineering and physics to solve problems involving motion and dynamics.

What are initial value problems and boundary value problems?

An initial value problem is an ODE that is solved by specifying the value of the unknown function at a single point, usually the starting point. A boundary value problem is solved by specifying the value of the unknown function at multiple points, usually at the boundaries of the domain.

What methods are used to solve ODEs?

There are several methods for solving ODEs, including analytical methods such as separation of variables and variation of parameters, as well as numerical methods such as Euler's method, Runge-Kutta methods, and finite difference methods. The most appropriate method depends on the specific ODE and its properties.

Similar threads

  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
946
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
2
Replies
40
Views
879
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
800
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
191
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
6
Views
734
  • Precalculus Mathematics Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
873
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
536
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
603
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
24
Views
1K
Back
Top