I have seen a number of people like one older couple who evacuated to their daughter's home and lost everything. Then they and their daughter's family had to evacuate and they too lost everything.berkeman said:
Source, please? SCE is denying this, even though people in positions to know the truth (eg, POTUS) keep repeating it.Ivan Seeking said:
I heard they try to fight it, due to the affluent nature of the people who live there.Flyboy said:
POTUS and I'm sure other people interviewed. I have heard a number of explanations includinggmax137 said:
Here in Nevada, the fire fighters always try to defend property (houses, buildings) threatened by wildfire. They don't care if it is a big house or a small ranch house or even a garage. After a fire is contained, I have often seen a single house of building still standing, surrounded by scorched earth. They do this by dropping water all around the structure they're defending. I imagine the same is true in southern Cali. The steep terrain and the 100 mph Santa Anna winds made this impossible in this week's fires, I don't think the income of the residents plays any part in it. In fact, that suggestion is an insult to the fire fighters.MidgetDwarf said:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/palisades-fire-hydrants-ran-out-of-water/Ivan Seeking said:
Note the part, "We also fueled all our generators serving our pump stations..."
I work a lot with FFs, and I'm with gmax on this. FFs don't fight fires based on saving famous people's homes first. Please don't suggest that.MidgetDwarf said:
I'm inclined to think that POTUS had good sources of information, but this is a counterpoint that I also think is pretty credible:Ivan Seeking said:
gmax137 said:
There was a map showing that the fire lines stopped almost exactly where the severe drought area ends.fresh_42 said:
Maybe that would need a closer look at aspects like plantings, constructions, and so on. CNN also showed a map of the Palisades fire that abruptly stopped in a straight line at the county border. So much to their reliability. Or the one south of it, I don't remember exactly. I just wondered about that straight.Ivan Seeking said:
I was thinking the factors that drive the drought may also play a role affecting the course of the fire. For example, a mountain ridge or a change in elevation could be factors. Said another way, topology could have played a role in both cases.fresh_42 said:
And I doubt we are talking about one district. There may be many examples of failures for many reasons.gmax137 said:
Rats, I just saw a FF chief interviewed tonight on the "ABC World New Tonight" TV broadcast that said another contributing factor was apartment buildings and businesses in the area with sprinkler systems that had those systems compromised by the intensity of the fire, which resulted in large leaks at each of those sites.berkeman said:
Topology is the central key since it explains Santa Ana and windspeed. But the hair dryer effect sounded reasonable to me. South California is dry compared to other regions in any case. The flying sparks are a problem if they land in an urban area whether there was rain in October or not.Ivan Seeking said:
Absolutely terrifying for all involved. When I compare the area of just one of the fires to where I live, all of metropolitan Detroit would be gon we.Ivan Seeking said:
Hello Hypatia! Very long time no see. :)hypatia said:
Not really. There’s lots of reports of then canceling coverage starting months ago, and unconfirmed reports of people getting their coverage cancelled during the evacuations.Ivan Seeking said:
Yeah, I was thinking that too. Water supply is one of those things that "has to work" and not be affected by a power failure. In buildings the backup fire pump is diesel powered(not diesel generator powered) and I'd expect both domestic water and fire main pumps to have such a backup.gmax137 said:
Insurance is a binding contract and can't be cancelled, only declined to renew. How long is a typical insurance term, a year? So, 2% get their renewal notice in the mail every week(with a month or two notice), and if the insurance provider is declining to renew, that's what they get instead. No doubt for some people the lapse date happened during the evacuations. It sucks, but it isn't "canceling during the evacuations".Flyboy said:
I have heard that figure even when CNN still spoke about 30 or so. They also mentioned celebrities a lot (Paris Hilton, Mel Gibson, etc.) However, it's the normal people I share my thoughts and sadness with, not rich people who suffered a loss they can probably far more easily recover from than ordinary people who lost everything.Ivan Seeking said:
Maybe the landscape fires - but do this kind of whole cities razed to ground happen to Spain? Old houses are unfired brick/adobe if poor, fired brick or (unreinforced) masonry when rich. What are the new houses in Spain resorts like? Hollow cinder block masonry? Concrete?fresh_42 said:
Fire insurance in California was already getting very expensive. I know a number of people in Northern Cali who have dropped their fire insurance because they simply can't afford it. I've heard fire premiums going from $2,000 a few years ago to 6,000 or more this year. Some just accept the risk, others have installed water tanks (two or three 5,000 gallon tanks) with a small engine-driven fire pump so they can keep their roofs wet.Ivan Seeking said:
Smerconish had an interesting take on things this morning. He said capitalism and environmentalism have typically been at odds with each other in that environmentalism can be expensive and halt economic progress. But now climate change is having a significant economic impact and, from floods to droughts to fires, the insurance companies are responding. Perhaps we are seeing the first cases of major economic changes due to the environment. The current trends would exclude all but the rich from living in many areas.gmax137 said: