Palestine moving in the right direction.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4196495.stm

Just up ahead I can see the new Palestinian check-point on the main road out to Israel.
I have been watching three Palestinian soldiers stopping and searching taxis and other cars, and for the first time in years - under a new agreement with Israel - these Palestinian security men are being allowed to go armed in this sensitive area close to Israeli settlements.

Driving around I have seen about a dozen Palestinian military jeeps on patrol.

But you get the feeling that much of this is rather symbolic - these patrols will not stop the rocket attacks if the militants are determined to carry them out from the fields around me.

The Palestinian leadership knows that it has to persuade the militants that the time has come to stop their attacks and it is time to negotiate with Israel.

Gaza's police chief, General Saib al-Ajez, told me how he hoped things might unfold:

"We are thinking of collecting weapons through negotiations with the militant factions and putting them in some kind of storage. This first step will be under the supervision of the factions, then they will see the Palestinian situation will improve.

"After that we will demand that these weapons are handed in. When that happens, controlling the situation will be very easy, but collecting their weapons by force, I don't think anyone in the Palestinian Authority can do that, or even think about it."

Gaza is one of the most crowded, claustrophobic places on earth. Everybody here dreads the thought of the security forces clashing with the militants.

General Ajez put it in emotional terms.

"This internal conflict between police and the militants cannot happen. It is forbidden. We are a single nation and many people know each other and it is not easy to kill someone who is bearing a weapon to defend his nation."

For now, at least, there seem to be signs that the militants might be heeding the call to ease back.

There have been no rocket attacks for two days now - the longest period of calm in Gaza for many months.
If the government continues to do this, I pray we honor our end of the deal and move rapidly toward a Palestinian state. This is so good to see, FINALLY!

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phatmonky said:
If the government continues to do this, I pray we honor our end of the deal and move rapidly toward a Palestinian state. This is so good to see, FINALLY!
I can guarantee you there is going to be no end to the Palestinian conflict until there is a full scale war.

phatmonky said:
If the government continues to do this, I pray we honor our end of the deal and move rapidly toward a Palestinian state. This is so good to see, FINALLY!
Sounds like they really are moving on the right track, great news. Though I wonder if come time for the next round of elections exactly how democratic they will be. It's easy to replace a dead guy, but let's see if living people in power will relinquish it if public will is against them.

I don't know a great deal about Palestine in general, but it seems to me that this stuff has happened before, and the new leader that America thinks will end the conflict after the old leader is disposed/killed just ends up creating another set of conflict and being a problem down the road (such as Saddam Hussein).

I found it very funny or tragicomic when Sharon decided to sever political relations with newly elected Palestinina leader after only one bombing at the check point.
Sharon behaves like a child, not grown men.Or maybe he does not gives **** who is Palestinian leader.Propably.

Bilal
The question:

Will Israel move to the right side? Will they remove their illegal extremists’ militants and their families from the settlements of WB and Gaza? Will they behave as human and accept to leave the Palestinian to live in part of their free country? They got already 80% of Palestine by force and terrorism, why they can not accept to leave 20%, according to UN resolutions, to native people who live in this land since centuries?

The problem with western media: they define the calm or peaceful period as the period no Israeli killed …. Even if hundreds of Palestinian killed within that calm period!

Bilal
May be you will surprise, but Iraq elected the first Parliament in ME in 1916.. UK occupied this country and replaced the elected parliament by corrupted king...

Palestine elected the second Parliament in ME in 30s. This Parliament with its governments succeeded to end the Palestinian revolution against UK in 1939 when the 2WW started.

This is second round of presidential election of Palestinian authority. First round was in 1996 under European supervision, Arafat won 75% of votes, and the next was women called Samiha Khalil , she got 20% of votes.

wasteofo2 said:
Sounds like they really are moving on the right track, great news. Though I wonder if come time for the next round of elections exactly how democratic they will be. It's easy to replace a dead guy, but let's see if living people in power will relinquish it if public will is against them.

I don't know a great deal about Palestine in general, but it seems to me that this stuff has happened before, and the new leader that America thinks will end the conflict after the old leader is disposed/killed just ends up creating another set of conflict and being a problem down the road (such as Saddam Hussein).

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Bilal said:
May be you will surprise, but Iraq elected the first Parliament in ME in 1916.. UK occupied this country and replaced the elected parliament by corrupted king...

Palestine elected the second Parliament in ME in 30s. This Parliament with its governments succeeded to end the Palestinian revolution against UK in 1939 when the 2WW started.
Very interesting, I did not know that.And we are being fed daily thru the media how uncivilized and primitive arabs are.

all religion based goverments are EVIL some more than others
worse my tax  supports this EVIL
there will be no peace in the holyland intill zionists give up power
yes the arabs do nasty stuff but I would tooo if they stold my homelands

BTW anti-semitic is a evil slogan I am anti-zionist [religion based goverment]
I have many jewish friends and arabs are semitic people tooo
none of this mess is based on race
it is about religion and power

russ_watters
Mentor
The media reports of the softening of relations between Israel and the PA are encouraging, but there's a probem that isn't going away:
Bilal said:
Will Israel move to the right side? Will they remove their illegal extremists’ militants and their families from the settlements of WB and Gaza? Will they behave as human and accept to leave the Palestinian to live in part of their free country? They got already 80% of Palestine by force and terrorism, why they can not accept to leave 20%, according to UN resolutions, to native people who live in this land since centuries?
Misleading, inaccurate, and dishonest - every bit of it. Until attitudes like this die, I'm afraid the conflict can't end. Make a choice, Bilal: choose peace.

So..please "Mr know it all" enlighten us a little bit what in Bilal last post is so innacurate,misleading and dishonest?I think he is 100 % correct.

Gonzolo
Here's a nice map showing Israel vs Palestine occupation in the WB you all may want to refer to :

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/mideast/interactive/disputed.land/westbank.html [Broken]

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Bilal
Please, Could you tell me where I present inaccurate information?

russ_watters said:
The media reports of the softening of relations between Israel and the PA are encouraging, but there's a probem that isn't going away: Misleading, inaccurate, and dishonest - every bit of it. Until attitudes like this die, I'm afraid the conflict can't end. Make a choice, Bilal: choose peace.

russ_watters
Mentor
Bilal said:
Please, Could you tell me where I present inaccurate information?
Certainly:

-"illegal"
-"their free country"
-"by force and terrorism"
-"why they can not accept to leave 20%, according to UN resolutions"

Would you also like me to highlight the misleading and dishonest parts? I didn't mention it before, but there is also inflamatory rhetoric...

PerennialII
Gold Member
State condoned/promoted terror versus terror ... there is no single side here who needs to move in the right direction, and Palestine doesn't have the international support & resources Israel is enjoying, so arguing this the other way around appears just as feasible. The opportunity to break the cycle ought to be embraced and ditch the childish force-political means that have led to the deadlock.

kat
Palestine doesn't have the international support & resources Israel is enjoying
not wanting to veer from the status quo...

I just simply can not understand how almost all Americans don't question and even fully support Israel?
Why yo care about Israel so much? sometimes looks to me Americans care more about them than their own country USA!
.
This US attack on Iraq is also very questionable as to whos national interests were promoted in the region,Israeli of course.
Israeli lobby in US congress have done good job to confuse some bird brains.

Gonzolo
spender said:
I just simply can not understand how almost all Americans don't question and even fully support Israel?
Why yo care about Israel so much? sometimes looks to me Americans care more about them than their own country USA!
.
This US attack on Iraq is also very questionable as to whos national interests were promoted in the region,Israeli of course.
Israeli lobby in US congress have done good job to confuse some bird brains.
I am also looking into this. A very partial answer may be fear of Nazi-like discrimination resurfacing.

Gonzolo said:
I am also looking into this. A very partial answer may be fear of Nazi-like discrimination resurfacing.
We can read history, and see full well what this unbroken chain of hatred and attack springs from;

"Too many Jews buying land in the 'hood."

Clearly, that's a sentiment that America should either be neutral about or even, get behind.

Gonzolo
If by "'hood', you mean Germany, Poland etc., then who's to say Palestine Arabs (or anyone else for that matter), would be no different? Present-day Israel is perhaps an equivalent amount of land European Jews used to own in eastern Europe (total guess here), or would buy in palestine anyway. Why bother rescuing them in WW2, if they are subsequently left alone afterwards?

Bilal
The end of cease-fire after the Israeli murdered a child inside her school ...

Or the Palestinian victims are not important?

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/47d4e277b48d9d3685256ddc00612265/4ccbf53bdd5af4e085256f9a0051d885!OpenDocument [Broken]

United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) 31 January 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UNRWA
PRESS RELEASE Press Release No. HQ/G/01/2005
31 January 2005
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10-YEAR OLD CHILD KILLED IN
UNRWA SCHOOL IN GAZA

Gaza-

Noran Iyad Deeb, a pupil at the Rafah Elementary Co-Ed "B" School run by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), was shot and killed today while lining up in the school yard for afternoon assembly. She was ten years old.

A second girl, Aysha Isam El-Khatib was injured in the hand by a second bullet fired at the same time.

At the time of the incident, firing had been heard from the direction of the Israeli-controlled border area. The school's teaching staff were attempting to clear the children from the school yard when Noran was hit. The bullet hit her in the face.

This is the fifth incident in the last two years in which children have been killed or seriously injured inside UNRWA school premises in the Gaza Strip. Two girls were killed in separate incidents in Rafah and Khan Younis last year and a little girl was permanently blinded in Khan Younis in March 2003.

UNRWA has repeatedly protested the Israeli military's indiscriminate firing into civilian areas in the occupied Palestinian territory. Rafah Elementary Co-Ed "B" School, which is 800 metres from the border, has been hit on numerous occasions since the start of the conflict. This is the first time the shots have had tragic consequences.

Peter Hansen, UNRWA's Commissioner-General, said: "Despite the hopeful signs of improvement in the situation we have again been reminded of the continuing danger to which innocent children are exposed by the realities of the occupation and the irresponsible use of arms."

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Bilal
russ_watters said:
Certainly:

-"illegal"

((http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3629745.stm

The United Nations human rights body has called on Israel to end settlement activity on Palestinian land and stop work on its barrier in the West Bank. …….. Ireland's envoy said they were "illegal and a major obstacle to peace".
Twenty-seven states backed the EU proposal demanding Israel reverse its settlement policy and construction of the "so-called security fence in occupied Palestinian territory". ))

-"their free country"

((http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF [Broken]))

-"by force and terrorism"

((http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_101

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre))

-"why they can not accept to leave 20%, according to UN resolutions"

((http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel

The results were, from 1967 to 1988 the Security Council passed 88 resolutions directly against Israel. During that span, Israel was "condemned" 49 times. In the General Assembly, 429 anti-Israel resolutions were passed, Israel was "condemned" 321 times. (Source: [1] (http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?id=1617)))

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I thought most of those resolutions were veto'd by the US.

spender said:
Very interesting, I did not know that.And we are being fed daily thru the media how uncivilized and primitive arabs are.
Ah, so by "uncivilized and primitive" you mean "undemocratic and don't adhere to our ideals" yes?

Hurkyl
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
I just simply can not understand how almost all Americans don't question and even fully support Israel?
My support for Israel is based on the fact that so many people make ridiculous accusations. I was indifferent on this subject (because I had little knowledge about it) until I started reading on this forum, and saw time and time again someone start a new thread about some new "atrocity" committed by Israel, but when I read the linked news article, it didn't seem bad at all.

There might be a case that Israel is an awful country, but the ridiculous attitude that everything Israel does is wrong (and, incidentally, without any criticism of Palestinian acts) certainly isn't going to convince me of that.

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Gonzolo said:
If by "'hood', you mean Germany, Poland etc., then who's to say Palestine Arabs (or anyone else for that matter), would be no different? Present-day Israel is perhaps an equivalent amount of land European Jews used to own in eastern Europe (total guess here), or would buy in palestine anyway. Why bother rescuing them in WW2, if they are subsequently left alone afterwards?
No.

There is an unbroken chain of hatred in the region that extends well before the defensive reaction, which was the State of Israel.

No, the chain is unbroken, and many of the can't shake em loose links have swastikas all over them. There was no magic moment or decade where the reset button was hit, and all was peace and harmony, and suddenly, a band of peace loving Jew haters found the State of Israel forced down their throat, totally shocked, wondering, 'Where did THAT come from, now we're pissed."

It's called 'tradition' in some 'hoods; the ones that were first inflamed because, as codified by the AHC and Arafat's Uncle Nazi, 'too many Jews were buying land in the 'hood.'

Unbroken chain, continuous line of evidence of hatred, never abated, never cleansed of its Nazi ties, not even by a whole squirming shaved head modern fresh squadron of Jew haters.

Sorry, but that **** doesn't wipe off of the jackboots, we can smell it a mile away