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Parallel universes.

  1. Nov 8, 2004 #1
    Hi all,

    I would like to ask an important question to me please.

    What is the theory of parallel universes ??

    Is there any proof for it ??

    If it is right, how can it be used for time travel ?

    thank u

    Hadeka.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 8, 2004 #2

    Garth

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    Hi hadeka, welcome to these Forums!
    There are many theories of parallel or other universes: Wheelers many worlds hypothesis that claims our universe splits in two every time there is a quantum interaction; the multiverse of Ryle and others to explain the Anthropic coincidences; if the universe 'bounces' at a big crunch you have an endless oscillating universe, each one separate; in eternal inflation our universe is just one inflated bubble amongst many in a quantum gravity foam; in the p-brane (I kid you not!) theory there are at least two, possibly many, possibly an infinite number, of membrane universes in a higher dimensional space that collide every now and again, like clapping hands; in Smolin's evolutionary cosmology each black holes spawns another universe, and ours came from such and will give birth to many others, etc. etc. Cosmologists have very fertile imaginations!

    My response is, "Show me one of these others!"

    Garth
     
  4. Nov 8, 2004 #3
    David Deutsch has its own multiverse theory, in which he applies ideas of decision theory. Here's a paper about it
    http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0312136
    "Understanding Deutsch's probability in a deterministic multiverse"
     
  5. Nov 9, 2004 #4
    One of the latest multiverse theories is the "Simulation argument", proposed by Nick Bostrom. this theory proclames that we live in one of an innumerable number of simulations run by some superior intelligence. Is a theory with reminiscences of "The Matrix". :cool: Martin Rees, the royal astronomer, is considering seriously this possibility:

    "Now some scientists are suggesting it should be taken seriously. "We may be a simulation ... creations of some supreme, or super-being," muses Britain's astronomer royal, Sir Martin Rees, a staunch advocate of the multiverse theory. He wonders whether the entire physical universe might be an exercise in virtual reality, so that "we're in the matrix rather than the physics itself"."
    http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2004/220704multiversetheory.htm

    Here's Nick Bostrom webpage about the "Simulation argument"
    http://www.simulation-argument.com/
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2004
  6. Nov 10, 2004 #5
    well, ok
    i want to ask something else in the same topic, about "parallel universes".

    Does Parallel universes support creationism or evolution?

    Why im asking this?

    because, if the human has been created, so it is not easy to believe in parallel universes theory because this theory is talking about infinite possibilities, that for example: there many of "me" in other universes.

    so, if the human has been created on our earth, from where the other "me" will come in other earth in another universe?

    and if, the parallel universes theory support the theory of evolution, i think it easy to believe in multieverses or "parallel universes".

    so, i think that i answered my question here !! from my point f view.

    So, i have another question please.

    Can Parallel universes theory support creationism?? and if "yes",, can you tell your point of view and the reason please ??

    and hope you can understand what i meant.

    thank u

    Hadeka.
     
  7. Nov 10, 2004 #6
     
  8. Nov 10, 2004 #7

    Garth

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    It depends on what is meant by "creationism". If it means a literal interpretation of the first chapter of Genesis, i.e. six days of 24 hrs some 6,000 years or so ago, then the answer is no. Any open minded honest look at the physical evidence would conclude that the universe is both big and old.

    If it means, "Does the idea of a multiverse have any bearing on the question of whether the universe we see and exist in is the artefact of a "supreme being?" then that is a more interesting question.

    Certainly it may be argued that a single universe, for which there seems to been a beginning of space and time and that is propitious for the occurrence and evolution of life, may be evidence for such a creator being. In this case it may be easier to continue to be an atheist if there is a multiverse. It is interesting to note that Martin Rees declares himself to be an atheist and a supporter of the multiverse concept, whether these two are linked or not is an interesting question.

    However if the conceived creator supreme being, 'God' is infinite then presumably his creation is infinite. If this universe is closed and finite, yet unbounded, then there must be an infinite number of them!

    So you can argue it both ways.
    Can you 'see' God - in a scientific kind of way? - No you need faith.
    Can you 'see' any of these other universes- in a scientific kind of way? - No, you need faith.

    Just a thought.
    Garth
     
  9. Nov 10, 2004 #8

    selfAdjoint

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    Smolin's idea of evolution of universes, new ones being born from black holes in older ones, and evolving toward richer black hole porduction, which is also the state that favors life, is another way to tune the univrse for life without an active creator. Of course it doesn't say where the original universe came from.
     
  10. Nov 10, 2004 #9
    Maybe it is not a universe, it is multiverse, and GOD is the GOD of these multiverses because these multiverses are all in just one big universe.

    anyway, i would like to clear my point to make you see what im thinking of.

    well ...

    Let me talk from a creationism and religious point of view right now.

    Now, GOD created a very big universe which contains multiverses which are connected by each other through wormholes.
    Suddenly, GOD created a man and woman (Adam and Eve) and sent them to the earth (our earth).
    they started as they are the parents and the source of the humanity to build the earth, the different between human and any other being, is that human have a mind, which can separate between good and evil, etc... .

    And ... the multiverse theory states that,, because our universe is too big and we will never reach or just know its border, so there are infinite possibilities that our world can have another copy in other place in our universe with small differences, caused by exact laws of that world.

    So, if GOD sent Adam and Eve to earth, so how can they exist in other place in our big universe too?

    I mean, what is the possibility that they exist in another parallel universe if they have been created not evolved?? and can it happen ? and how ?

    sorry ,it's a long reply.

    hope u can understand what i meant here.

    thank u.

    Hadeka.
     
  11. Nov 10, 2004 #10
    Have you read any C.S. Lewis? This is the sort of thing he deals with in his 'Interplanetary' trilogy (Out of the silent planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength). Likewise his Narnia series can be thought of as combining religion with a parallel universe.
     
  12. Nov 10, 2004 #11

    Garth

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    Smolin's evolutionary universe tries to explain the improbability of the Anthropic coincidences.

    It makes use of the "fact" that the conditions that maximise the number of black holes in any particular universe also are the conditions that are propitious for life.

    But wait a minute, isn't that rather a coincidence?
    (Even if those two sets of conditions are the same set, which is debatable to say the least!)

    Just a thought,

    Garth
     
  13. Nov 10, 2004 #12

    Garth

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    hadeka - One answer to your questions would be to say, "Well God can do anything can't He?" In which case there's no point in asking those sorts of questions.

    But science does not progress that way. Instead it seeks natural explanations for natural phenomena, natural causes for natural effects. It makes hypotheses and looks for evidence to support or refute that hypothesis, eventually, when a coherent nexus of testable ideas cohere consistently these ideas form what is called a 'theory'.
    There is plenty of evidence that there was a gradual change in animal species over geological ages, not only from the present distribution of closely related species (The Galapagos finches), and the (rather fragmentary) fossil record but also recorded in the amount of DNA code different living species share, including ourselves. There is plenty of evidence that there has been a gradual development of the human species from a time when we shared a common ancestor with the great apes and beyond back to the first living cells.

    The word 'Adam' in Hebrew means 'a being - made of the dust of the ground', or in other words' earthling' (now there's a thought) and 'Eve' means 'mother', there is nothing to say that these ancient stories cannot be taken as an allegory (but not literally) of how we see our origins, telling us truth about who we are, but in a different way to the scientific story of who we are. Both ways of telling the story of our origins can be taken complementary to each other.
    Garth
     
  14. Nov 11, 2004 #13
    If you want to talk about creationism and religuos, I think the first question has comt to your mind is who created god?That seems to be an easy question to answer but it's not.
    Similarly, when we talk about universe, most of us have agreed about the big Bang theory. However, if you ask the question about what happened before Big Bang, no one can give you the answer because anything happened before Big Bang are deleted in the singularity of Big Bang. Even time doesn't exist at that moment.You can't say anything before Big Bang because to you it doesn't exist, you have no relative to it, therefore you can't mention about it in science because our purpose is to experience everything that happen or relative to us, not about the thing which doesn't exist or just in your imagination
     
  15. Nov 18, 2004 #14
    the universe is realy very small

    i am not as educated as most on here,but i have noticed that most things are balanced ie everything from the stars to a germ resinates at its own frequency, so why are us humans out of balance with our supposed natural environment?, i suppose seventy years would be the benchmark to work off,but if we lived to be a million years old and evolution had been alot slower?,i hope you can see where im going with this.
     
  16. Nov 19, 2004 #15

    Garth

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    That's the question!
    Garth
     
  17. Nov 19, 2004 #16

    Chronos

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    Hmm, that sounds very suspect. Appealing to a higher order sounds more like an excuse than science. I prefer cause and effect. That does not take God out of the equation.. it merely suggests God prefers causality over chaos.
     
  18. Nov 19, 2004 #17
    Hi,

    I have had personal experience of alternate realities. That's all the proof I need.

    juju
     
  19. Nov 19, 2004 #18

    jcsd

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    You've been to Slough too then!:biggrin:
     
  20. Nov 23, 2004 #19

    Well, i will answer this question as my point of view.

    We believe that GOD created the universe.

    Everything we know is coming from inside the universe, not from outside.

    So, the beginning of a people (birth for example) is result of many things inside our universe, and also the end (death for example) is a result of many things inside the universe.

    So, there are Beginning and End.

    And as i said, that GOD created the universe, so created everything in the universe, so he created the Beginning and End, so he created the frist beginning and the last end.

    If GOD created the beginning and the end, so he is stronger than the beginning and the end.

    That means, that, GOD, doesnt have beginning and End.

    He is eternal.

    But i think, u didnt answer my question yet, what do u know about Parallel universes or multiverses in one ??

    Thank u and hope u can understand what i mean.
     
  21. Nov 23, 2004 #20

    selfAdjoint

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    Does this thread, and in particular this post, belong in Special and General Relativity? In general we don't allow commercials for religion, and abstract discussions of the properties a god might have belong in Philosophy.
     
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