Pathological Sciences: Irving Langmuir's Account of the Davis-Barnes Effect

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In summary, The conversation discusses pathological science and references Irving Langmuir's account of the Davis-Barnes effect. There is discussion about whether Barnes and Fleischmann and Pons were delusional in their beliefs about achieving positive results. The speaker shares a personal experience with someone who was also delusional in their belief about an effect in image analysis. The conversation also touches on the limitations of human perception and the advantages of using machines in scientific research. The speaker also mentions the misapplication of statistics and shares that the conversation was about engineering, specifically in the field of connecting to semiconductor devices.
  • #1
tade
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I got curious about pathological science. Here's Irving Langmuir's account of the Davis-Barnes effect.

http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~ken/Langmuir/langA.htm
So ultimately, was Barnes being very delusional and thus always believing that he obtained positive results?

Did the same thing happen to Fleischmann and Pons with regards to cold fusion? They deluded themselves into believing they had achieved something?
 
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  • #2
tade said:
I got curious about pathological science.


Here's Irving Langmuir's account of the Davis-Barnes effect.

http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~ken/Langmuir/langA.htm



So ultimately, was Barnes being very delusional and thus always believing that he obtained positive results?

Did the same thing happen to Fleischmann and Pons with regards to cold fusion? They deluded themselves into believing they had achieved something?

I've seen this sort of thing myself. I was supposed to help someone with image analysis. I couldn't see the effect they were trying to detect. I programmed a computer to detect the effect and that didn't work either. So I gave up.

About Fl and Pons I don't know, and the whole thing was such a mess that I'll never look into it. I do know that Nobel Prize winner Julian Schwinger supported them, much to his detriment. I very much doubt that they got fusion -- that's just too weird -- but they might have discovered some interesting effect.
 
  • #3
Those people you were helping, they just lost their heads and kept on believing in their discovery?

I find it a very bizarre, fascinating psychological phenomenon.
 
  • #4
tade said:
Those people you were helping, they just lost their heads and kept on believing in their discovery?

I find it a very bizarre, fascinating psychological phenomenon.

They wanted to see it, so they did. It is rather common. They weren't crazy or anything like that. They wanted to see these irregular circles as slightly elliptical, so they did. I didn't make a big deal out of it, just quietly folded my tent and left. After all, it was possible that someone else could do it, but that never happened. The human eye is a very good pattern detector, so if a human can't see it then a machine probably can't either.

I used to do weather forecasts and a few people would sense non-existent patterns in the weather. Same sort of thing.

So this is why scientists like to measure things with machines. Machines are too dumb to be fooled in this way. Sometimes it goes too far and ALL human observations are disregarded, but machines definitely have their advantages.

Statistics are a sort of middle ground. They help you to reject non-existent and transient patterns, but are often misapplied.
 
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  • #5
well, no method is free from fallacies.

Just curious, what sort of research were you doing with these um.. pathological people?
 
  • #6
tade said:
well, no method is free from fallacies.

Just curious, what sort of research were you doing with these um.. pathological people?

It was visual analysis of tiny bumps of solder via cameras and so forth. They were trying to measure the height of the bumps via their ellipticity, which couldn't be done. It was engineering, not really research.
 
  • #7
ImaLooser said:
It was visual analysis of tiny bumps of solder via cameras and so forth. They were trying to measure the height of the bumps via their ellipticity, which couldn't be done. It was engineering, not really research.

I'm guessing aerospace engineering?

The simplest way to measure bumps is to orient the camera to the side. :smile:
 
  • #8
tade said:
I'm guessing aerospace engineering?

The simplest way to measure bumps is to orient the camera to the side. :smile:

It had to do with connecting to semiconductor devices.

The machines were already built and we had to make do with what we had.
 

1. What is the Davis-Barnes Effect described by Irving Langmuir?

The Davis-Barnes Effect, also known as the "Langmuir Effect", is a phenomenon described by scientist Irving Langmuir in which a highly reactive surface, such as a metal, can remove gases from the surrounding environment through a process known as adsorption.

2. How does the Davis-Barnes Effect relate to pathological sciences?

The Davis-Barnes Effect has significant implications in pathological sciences, particularly in the field of air quality and pollution control. Langmuir's research on the effect has been used to better understand the behavior of pollutants in the atmosphere and develop methods for their removal.

3. What is adsorption and how does it contribute to the Davis-Barnes Effect?

Adsorption is the process by which molecules from a gas or liquid adhere to the surface of a solid material. In the case of the Davis-Barnes Effect, the highly reactive surface of the metal allows for the adsorption of gases, leading to their removal from the surrounding environment.

4. Can the Davis-Barnes Effect be applied in practical applications?

Yes, the Davis-Barnes Effect has been applied in various practical applications, such as air purification systems and gas storage technologies. It has also been used in the development of catalytic converters for vehicles, which help reduce air pollution.

5. What further research is being done on the Davis-Barnes Effect?

Scientists continue to study the Davis-Barnes Effect in order to better understand its mechanisms and potential applications. Some current research includes exploring new materials with highly reactive surfaces, as well as investigating the effect in different environmental conditions.

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