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News Patriot act and civil liberties

  1. Oct 24, 2005 #1
    Some papers are being released at present, that indicate that the FBI has not been following the 'rules.' Most notably from my perspective, they have been keeping people under surveillance without proper paperwork to do so.

    All related articles:


    I am not certain how many violations involved American citizens. I am not certain if that is relevant - I don't know if civil liberties are considered first and formost a citizen's right, and secondarily a resident's right, and tertiarily rights for people living in other countries.
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 25, 2005 #2
    If it is an unwritten policy of the FBI not to follow law then the agency's managers should be punished. If it is a matter of poor judgment on the part of individual operatives then it is more palatable but the individuals should be disciplined, fired, indicted…

    I’m not in favor of the Patriot Act and hope it soon disappears, leaving only the provisions pertaining to the mutual cooperation of all the intelligence agencies.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2005
  4. Oct 25, 2005 #3


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    Oh why oh why did I bother with that thread directory? It took me almost two hours to put that together, but no one uses it.

    Before you respond, patty, I know: I'm a forum Nazi, probably a hypocrite, and everyone hates me, justifiably.
  5. Oct 25, 2005 #4


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    Hmm... absolutely no mention of the Patriot Act in the article.... makes a rational person think....
  6. Oct 25, 2005 #5


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    Good catch, but I think patty might be right here anyway. From the article:

    Before the Patriot Act, FISA powers could only be used to authorize investigations on foreign soil. Patriot I extended this power to allow FISA to authorize investigations of domestic terrorism as well. Assuming this is what the complaint is about (I cannot read the first page of this article, so I don't know), then it is a complain about a power granted by the Patriot Act.
  7. Oct 25, 2005 #6
    I think most posters would give you a A+ but you only get an A from me.
  8. Oct 25, 2005 #7


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    But I don't hate him :!!) :!!) :!!)
  9. Oct 25, 2005 #8
    You mean like this quote, from the original article?
    LYN, I frankly don't know why you put that directory together. I am far less likely to open a five - plus page thread that resurrects itself, than a new thread on an "old topic" with new information being released. (As is the case here.) But, I recognise that others may be different.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2005
  10. Oct 25, 2005 #9


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    The idea was that, every time you want to discuss a topic that comes up a lot, we may as well do it somewhere where everyone - especially new contributors - can easily go back and see what has been posted before. Hopefully, this way we can avoid simply repeating ourselves over and over, having to respond to points that we already have.
  11. Oct 25, 2005 #10
    You mean people in the P/WA forum repeat themselfs? ?
    I am shocked :surprised
  12. Oct 25, 2005 #11
    It's a good idea.

    One problem is that by the time a thread is 100 posts long, it is as likely to be off the original topic as not.

    This is why I often don't open resurrected threads. I assume the tangent that the thread has taken, is what is being discussed.

    It seems your concerns as well as my own could be addressed by at least *linking* the older thread in the new thread (Which at least in this case was started because there was *new* information being released about FBI transgressions), so that newer contributors can go back and see what has been discussed before.

    I'll make an effort to link older threads. I'll do it now, in fact.

    Here is the one I found in the directory that pertains to the patriot act, I didn't see any separate threads that deal more generally with civil liberties:

  13. Oct 25, 2005 #12
    Well this thread is already off topic talking about how not to go off topic in other threads:confused:
  14. Oct 25, 2005 #13
    Easy to put back on topic:

    According to one FBI senior person, the breaches are not systematic. They are more along the lines of administrative oversights.

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/10/25/2fbi.surveillance/ [Broken]

    The senate judiciary committee may investigate.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  15. Nov 3, 2005 #14


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    I’ve brought this up before – I recently refinanced my home, and because of the Patriot Act several forms of ID are required. The problem is, there is no verification process for citizenship before close.

    Last week I opened a new bank account. Because of the Patriot Act the bank must ask me if I have any affiliation with people from a list of countries (Iran, etc.). But they don’t ask for any proof of citizenship, and neither is verified.

    I get the feeling these things are all going into a data base for reasons that have nothing to do with the right to own property in the U.S., etc. It makes me feel like I live in cold war era USSR or something.
  16. Nov 3, 2005 #15
    Ver ar yooor papers!?
  17. Nov 4, 2005 #16
    Ve haf waze uff making you talk!
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