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Patron saint of cobblers

  1. Sep 24, 2005 #1

    marcus

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    I see that Saint Crispian's day (October 25) is coming up. He is the patron saint of cobblers

    http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintc22.htm

    I remember Crispin in connection with this passage from Shakespeare Henry V

    This day is called the feast of Crispian.
    He that outlives this day and comes safe home
    Will stand a-tiptoe when this day is named
    And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
    He that shall see this day and live t'old age
    Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbors
    And say, 'Tomorrow is Saint Crispian.'
    Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars
    And say, 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
    Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
    But he'll remember, with advantages,
    What feats he did that day...


    many sites have the text, here is one for example:
    http://www.williamwalton.net/works/film/henry_v_scenario.html#text
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 24, 2005 #2

    Evo

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    St Crispian, I'd heard of, but didn't remember much. Thanks for the insight Marcus. :smile:

    So, will we be celebrating Columbus Day again this year?
     
  4. Sep 25, 2005 #3
    I had thought to go to the mall today. Maybe fight my way into the throngs, to go shoe shopping.
     
  5. Sep 25, 2005 #4

    marcus

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    Evo, so nice of you to ask

    How would you like to celebrate the 811-th birthday of Frederick II of Sicily? He was born in a marketplace and roamed the Palermo streets as a boy. Apparently street-wise. Lively curiosity. Became Holy Roman Emperor. Got along well with non-Christians.

    "Even his birth was remarkable. In order to stanch any doubt about his origin, the already 40-year old Constance gave birth to the child publicly in a marketplace. After Henry VI, his father, died at 31, Frederick came under the guardianship of the pope, [who] neglected him on the basis of power-politics. In Palermo, where the three-year-old boy was brought after his mother's death, he grew up like a street youth. On his own, he roamed a city which swarmed with adventurers and pirates, beggars and jugglers, Arab and Jewish merchants...."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor

    Evo, to celebrate the OCTOCENTENNIAL of Frederick's turning 11 what one would do is have a birthday cake with ELEVEN CANDLES, which one would ceremoniously light on 26 December and (after remembering Frederick's giraffe, his friendship with the Sultan of Egypt, his interest in birds, and thinking for a moment about that 11 yearold boy) make a wish and blow them out for Frederick----then eat the cake.

    Think about it.

    Columbus' discovery was a noble achievement which inspired and liberated the European mind. Many wonderful things followed in its wake.

    But think about it. This year which would you, on mature reflection, prefer to celebrate?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2005
  6. Sep 25, 2005 #5

    marcus

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    A friend of Frederick's
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci
    introduced decimal numbers (positional base-ten notation) to Europe

    there is a story that Frederick decided to have a math tournament at his court, with algebra problems supplied by someone named John of Palermo.
    And Leonardo of Pisa ("Fibonacci") solved these rather intricate problems way faster than the other mathematicians

    the solutions were later put down in a book, to which Wiki refers

    in circa 1230, when Frederick had this tournament, presumably other European monarchs were having the more usual kind of tournament where two guys in iron suits crash into each other. I'll go with the algebra puzzles.

    The pope got Frederick to promise to go on a Crusade to the holy land. Jerusalem was under the Sultan of Egypt's control. Frederick delayed and was excommunicated for not going. The next year he went, and made friends with the Sultan of Egypt, and avoided fighting battles, and by diplomacy got himself crowned King of Jerusalem and Bethlehem etc.
    Frederick thought the Crusades were a bad idea and spoke out about this.

    He liked animals and had a private zoo to which the Sultan of Egypt contributed----I think it was a giraffe. They were friends (Frederick and the Sultan, not as far as I know Frederick and the giraffe)
     
  7. Sep 25, 2005 #6

    marcus

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    Evo, it seems to me that you and I talked about Frederick one time before, perhaps a year ago, and you indicated that you were a fan of his. Or that you were acquainted with him and found him interesting. Is this an accurate memory or did I make it up? Anyway I think that last year I chose Columbus and perhaps it is your turn, or somebody else's turn. maybe you have another idea besides celebrating Fred Two's 11-th birthday.


    My urge to remember Fred Two comes from wanting to be reminded that not all leaders are stupid bloody fools. Although some are.
     
  8. Sep 25, 2005 #7

    Evo

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    We're definitely celebrating Frederick's birthday this year! Cake and candles it is!!! :tongue: Maybe I could make a giraffe cake for the occasion. :approve:

    I don't remember having discussed Frederick. I'll have to read up on him now. You have a way of looking at history that is really fun. I'm glad to see you here.
     
  9. Sep 25, 2005 #8

    Evo

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    I was reading your link on Frederick "at 14 years of age he married a 25-year-old widow named Constance". I found that surprising.
     
  10. Sep 25, 2005 #9

    marcus

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    Frederick's value as a slave

    Wiki quotes the impression an Arab historian Sibt Ibn al-Jawzi who had eyewitness accounts of Frederick, to the effect that he was covered with red hair and would not have been worth much as a slave.

    on the Damascus market at the time, the historian reckons, Frederick would have fetched 200 dirham
    the dirham is the same as the greek drachma
    it is 6000 drachmas to the talent so that is not very much

    perhaps one could say a drachma is about a DIME
    so 200 drachmas is about TWENTY BUCKS

    I like this Wiki article about Frederick
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor

    Oh about Constance of Aragon and him getting married when he was 14, they seem to have gotten along OK. their son was born when Frederick was 16 years old.

    Frederick liked taking baths, which was somewhat peculiar of him. Medieval people, other Germans of that period, apparently didnt like to bathe all that much but he took a bath every day. he seems to have been independent-minded and to have done pretty much what he pleased regardless of convention.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2005
  11. Sep 25, 2005 #10

    marcus

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    getting Jerusalem by charm, after 5 months

    when he went on Crusade in 1228 (having promised the pope he would) he apparently had the necessary forces to take Jerusalem, but instead of storming the place as a crusader normally did, he camped outside and made friends with the Sultan of Egypt, one Sultan El-Kamil.

    El-Kamil's territory included Jerusalem and the Sultan was in the city and Frederick was outside the city, and, instead of fighting battles they talked and became lifelong friends.

    the Wiki article has a picture of the two guys shaking hands or doing whatever was the Medieval equivalent.

    "A further example of how much he differed from his contemporaries was his Crusade in the Holy Land. Outside Jerusalem, with the power to take it, he parlayed five months with the Egyptian Sultan el-Kamil about the surrender of the city. The Sultan summoned him into Jerusalem and entertained him in the most lavish fashion. When the muezzin, out of consideration for Frederick, failed to make the morning call to prayer, the emperor declared: "I stayed overnight in Jerusalem, in order to overhear the prayer call of the Muslims and their worthy God." The Saracens loved him, so it was no surprise that after five months Jerusalem was handed over to him. The fact that this was regarded in the Arab as in the Christian world as high treason did not matter to him one whit. As the [Christian] Patriarch of Jerusalem refused to crown him king, he set the crown on his own head."

    this coronation as King of Jerusalem (plus Bethlehem and Nazareth) was in March 1229

    I wonder how good this Wiki article is
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor
    I suspect it was written by a German-speaker who makes occasional slight mistakes of wording in English. In any case i like the article.

    So that would have been soon after he turned 34 years old (remember his birthday is in December)
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2005
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