Perfect economy

[Outlandish_Existence]

I've got an idea for a perfect economy. Everyone grows their own food. Humans realize they are self sufficient, free beings entitled to the land that we live on, just as the animals and the insects are, and we stop feeding this corrupt system that rules our world with war and politics.

 

[Mickey]

naah, I don't think it is just marketing, look at how many people can see soccer and how many poeple can watch table tennis. Soccer sells more tickets b/c it is a bigger game.

This doesn't address anything about marketing. If you ever say the words "just marketing," then you really don't know what marketing is.

The best product in the world will go no where if it can't be put into the hands of the people who can use it. Very good products have died due to poor marketing, and mediocre products have succeeded due to good marketing. If the product you're selling is a purely spectator event? Marketing is pretty much everything.

Not many people are good at marketing, though. They make it seem ephemeral. The few who are really good at it make it seem easy. All of them make it seem trivial.

 

[superweirdo]

May be I started this forum from a long pace but what I mean by everyone will be happy is that everyone's goal will accomplished. Everyone will be successful. Happiness is something that comes from inside. THat comes from love, it is something no amount of perfection can create. I dream of an economy where nobody complains about thier jobs, where nobody blaims their problems on someone else. Where everyone is disciplined and integried.

My point is, right now, the economy is a win loose thing. THere is competetion in everything, one looses one wins. I want a win-win economy. COmpetetion can still be there but everybody has to have his day. I believe in future, when there will be no more crimes, all the low jobs will be done by robots, we will stop reproducing b/c we will stop dyieng too, may be we will be able to achieve eternal happiness without death.

 

[selfAdjoint]

May be I started this forum from a long pace but what I mean by everyone will be happy is that everyone's goal will accomplished. Everyone will be successful. Happiness is something that comes from inside. THat comes from love, it is something no amount of perfection can create. I dream of an economy where nobody complains about thier jobs, where nobody blaims their problems on someone else. Where everyone is disciplined and integried.

My point is, right now, the economy is a win loose thing. THere is competetion in everything, one looses one wins. I want a win-win economy. COmpetetion can still be there but everybody has to have his day. I believe in future, when there will be no more crimes, all the low jobs will be done by robots, we will stop reproducing b/c we will stop dyieng too, may be we will be able to achieve eternal happiness without death.

Before you decide having all "low-grade" jobs done by robots is a benefit, think what it will be like to be pets of the automata. And that is a best case scenario! Worst case is they wipe us out. Many many dystopias have been constructed around that, but one of the earliest ones is also one of the best. Your library should have it: Jack WIlliamson's The Humanoids.

 

[Mickey]

... but what I mean by everyone will be happy is that everyone's goal will accomplished. Everyone will be successful.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."
-- Winston Churchill

I dream of an economy where nobody complains about thier jobs, where nobody blaims their problems on someone else. Where everyone is disciplined and integried.

This doesn't describe the economy, but the participants in it. Not complaining, not blaming other people, being disciplined... these are all part of personal ethics.

My point is, right now, the economy is a win loose thing.

No, not really. Every transaction is a win/win situation, if it's done willingly and honestly. Granted, people are not always honest and government keeps extending its coercion. For example, governments coerce their method of education upon the populous. This is not a willing transaction, and the product is a lot of unhappy, unsatisfied students who don't know very much. Every problem you've talked about is not systemic to the economy.

You dream of an economy where nobody blames their problems on someone else, but all you've done now is blame "the economy." You might as well blame nature, if you're not going to blame dishonest people or the government.

we will stop reproducing b/c we will stop dyieng too, may be we will be able to achieve eternal happiness without death.

You can't prevent people from reproducing, without compromising their natural freedoms. As for death, well, you can't prevent people from doing that either.

If you really want to extend life, heal the sick, feed the hungry and so on, maybe you should be studying biology.

 

[russ_watters]

My point is, right now, the economy is a win loose thing. THere is competetion in everything, one looses one wins. I want a win-win economy.

You misunderstand market economics. When you buy a car from a car dealer, who loses in that transaction? The dealer gets money and you get a car.

More generally, people often think things like investing are a zero-sum game: ie, in order for one person to make money in the stock market, someone else has to lose. That simply isn't the case.

 

[selfAdjoint]

You misunderstand market economics. When you buy a car from a car dealer, who loses in that transaction? The dealer gets money and you get a car.

More generally, people often think things like investing are a zero-sum game: ie, in order for one person to make money in the stock market, someone else has to lose. That simply isn't the case.

Perhaps sw was refrerring to competition for jobs. Talent and luck - i.e. things beyond our willpower to alter, play a large part in who gets hired and who doesn't^*. And the don'ts, the underemployed, are the shocktroops of crime and revolution.


^*I know you don't agree with this Russ, but I believe the idea that a good salary is a reward for moral virtue is just patently wrong.

 

[superweirdo]

I was just asking if there is a way for a perfect economy in which everyone can be happy w/ their jobs and salary.

 

[russ_watters]

Perhaps sw was refrerring to competition for jobs.

Perhaps. I'm not really sure.

Talent and luck - i.e. things beyond our willpower to alter, play a large part in who gets hired and who doesn't^*. And the don'ts, the underemployed, are the shocktroops of crime and revolution.

^*I know you don't agree with this Russ, but I believe the idea that a good salary is a reward for moral virtue is just patently wrong.

I'm not sure I understand this part. What does moral virtue have to do with this? I do fully recognize that talent and luck play a role in who gets where in life - were you under the impression that I don't believe that?

 

[Mickey]

I was just asking if there is a way for a perfect economy in which everyone can be happy w/ their jobs and salary.

Everyone already can be happy with their jobs and salaries.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's a perfect economy, though.

 

[superweirdo]

how come? And I don't think everyone can be already happy. Since everyone wants more. But I think everyone can be neccesarily satisfied. Results in a amount of salary in which they can afford the things they wish. Which is not true in every case. For one to be boss, others have to be employees.

 

[Brother Jerry]

Forgive my lateness to this topic. It has been quite a while since visiting phys forums. But here I just had to read :)

Sebas531

but I am pretty sure that uhhh.......communism its not a type of economic system

Incorrect. Actually communism is a form of economic system. Economics I would teach you that ;) It is only our modern perceptions to think of communism as a governmental form which is closer to totalitarian than most.


Superweirdo

how come? And I don't think everyone can be already happy. Since everyone wants more. But I think everyone can be neccesarily satisfied. Results in a amount of salary in which they can afford the things they wish. Which is not true in every case. For one to be boss, others have to be employees.

They could be. (This does not mean that they are right now as I type...but theoretically they could be). And sure theoretically everyone could be satisfied with their salary, but there are MANY MANY other factors involved in being satisfied with the job they are doing. Their boss, the company, the position they are working, their co-workers, their location, etc, etc. All of which have nothing to do with the economy.

There have been comments in this thread about communism being a perfect economy, however it is far from it because it staunches creative ideas. It is human nature to want recognition for what they have done (whether it is in name or in the wallet). With no extra money coming in for ideas then there is no drive to create new ideas. (This is not to say that people do not have those ideas but do not follow through for lack of reward).

Pure capitalism was mentioned as well. However in a pure environment where the gment has no control over the market in any way. Try mailing a letter and see how much you think it would cost. Because you would now be doing it for a private organization or two or three. Who would keep up the roads? Private organizations that would have to get paid in order to do it? Who would pay them? Toll roads and similar functions. Billy goats and the troll come to mind.

There is no perfect economy because man is to imperfect and to variant. What makes one happy makes another sad. What makes one rich makes another dirt poor. Man is full of deceit and misgivings and with such intent at heart it immediately destroys what could be classified as perfect. But then in a purely humanistic aspect perfect is subjective. Only when holding the concept of perfect to that of a perfect being can one truly define what is perfect and what is not. Otherwise you are only applying your own human values upon it.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

 

[Universe_Man]

I don't think a perfect economy is feasible, or even possible. Alot of humans are just too greedy or too concerned with themselves to think of others (Ex. Pharmaceutical Companies, Tobacco companies, Oil Companies, Politicians, Celebrities). In order to have an "perfect" economy, You need people who care about the welfare of others above themselves. People like that are at a premium.

 

[superweirdo]

I believe if we can have a perfect educational system which will make all the students intregrityfull and disciplined. So once the people are perfect, so will the economy be. I have seen it in clubs that when the manager is real good, people in the club become like him, I have read this in books too. This can actually work.

 

[Mickey]

... a perfect educational system which will make all the students intregrityfull and disciplined. So once the people are perfect, so will the economy be.

Okay, Hitler.

 

[Brother Jerry]

Superweirdo
Sure things like that can work in small environments. Communism works in small groups as well. But one thing you have to take into account is that the people that this is working on share a similar interest. People joining commune's WANT to be in a commune. People working at a club took the job. No one is there by force or anything of that nature. They share that common interest. But when you get into larger groups of people their interests, desires, goals all change and are different. There are people who do not want to live in a commune, or do not want to work in a night club.

And even if you take a look at the two examples above. If they are here in the United States then they are a micro economy within the grand economy of a free market socialistic environment. (yes we are in a simplistic state socialist economy). And even the manager at the bar has to fold to the economy of the owner of the bar. And thus following the chain up to the larger economy and so forth and so on.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

 

[superweirdo]

You are failing to understand one thing, whatever you learn in high school will help you in every field you go to. That specific knowledge may be a waste but it makes your mind open, faster, more creative and dynamic. Now, after graduating, you can choose what you wanna be depending on your interesting by chooosing what college you wanna go to. The reason I said that we need to improve the educational system is b/c the purpose of a class is to teach its subjects, still, most of the people who pass physics don't actually understand it. Things that we learn in life, things that we need to know but don't learn in school needs to be taught in school. I know if I wasn't such a library worm, I would have been idiot. There are a lot of improvements left in the educational system, since that is the basic ground brick, once that is stablished, perfect economy won't be a dream anymore, it will be a stepping stone.