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Perpetual motion and free energy possible?

  1. Jun 24, 2004 #1
    perpetual motion and free energy possible???

    acording to many inventors, they have invented a perpetual motion machine, from a guy in Norway, USA, Canada, France. but according to todays laws in physics, perpetual motion is imposible, one guy said aliens from Kandlon, or something, visited him and told him to build a flying saucer based on perpetual motion, he said he succeeded, oh that planet, he claims its on the other side of the sun, so we can never see it. there is a lot of factors to this perpetual motion, all, so far, hase been rejected from this orginization, i forget what its called, hardcore physicist and mathematician still believe that perpetual motion is imposible and everyone who claims they made a machine that makes free energy is a lunatic, but back in the day they used to say that to everyone who had a different view, and they were burnt at the stake, hence the 800 years of no singnificant technological advancement. so in all these claims, one could be true, maybe modern physics is being proven wrong, because a theory is only a theory until proven wrong, it is never right and/or the only way, maybe there really is something in the perpetual motion.

    oh and that flying saucer guy, the US military is devloping a flying saucer which has the same basic idea as the guy who claims he's built one.

    what are your thoughts on this subject. Njorl, I'll be eager to read what you have to say
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 24, 2004 #2
    Hey, I just watched that on the Discovery Channel too!

    Anyway, I think it's impossible.
  4. Jun 24, 2004 #3


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    This in itself is proof that the claim is bogus. It is impossible for such a planet to exist without our knowing about it. Its very presence would disturb the orbits of the other planets and we would detect it through that. Also, such a orbit would not be stable. The planet would tend to drift out of its position directly opposite the Earth and into a position where we would see it. This is generally a telling factor in many of these types of claims; the person making the claim doesn't even know enough in order to even make their story plausible.
  5. Jun 24, 2004 #4
    Well, perpetual motion is pretty impossible, for reasons already known to science well before I replied in this thread.

    If there was such a grand invention, we would have heard about it.

    At the time, alternating current was a grand invention...so was electricity, and wheels, and steam engine, and car motors, and so on...we've all heard of them.

    Its kind of propostrous to think such a grand invention would be hidden.

    I could just as easily claim "I have discovered a new particle - the adamon...it's unobservable."
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2004
  6. Jun 25, 2004 #5
    i never said i believed the guy, i was merely stating his story
  7. Jun 25, 2004 #6
    government secrecy these days is far greater than government secrecy in the days of all those inventions though
  8. Jun 25, 2004 #7


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    Please try not to get into the whole "UFOs are everywhere, the CIA is covering it up" hype. As it has been stated previously, that planet would have been noticed by us. By the way, we sent probes to other planets, and at one time or another they should have been able to see this "hidden planet".
    According to everything we know, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion device, or free energy.
  9. Jun 25, 2004 #8
    RE: "government secrecy these days is far greater than government secrecy in the days of all those inventions though"

    Actually, government secrecy is much harder to pull off today than in the past. And it would be almost impossible to pull off if the inventor was a civilian.
  10. Jun 25, 2004 #9
    I think energy from nothing is pretty impossible, but I did see a show on PBS a long time ago about a theory where in certain conditions like during the big bang when all the matter in the universe was compressed together all the forces combinded into one force and somehow energy is created. Thats all I remember it was like five years ago and I was twelve.
  11. Jun 25, 2004 #10


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    During the inflationary stage of evolution, you didn't have temporal symmetry, and hence were not required to have energy conservation.
  12. Jun 25, 2004 #11
    I haven't investigated deeply, but I have read a couple of times about the possibility that when deriving the equations for GR then it is assumed that rotating magnetic fields are symmetric (if somebody knows better, then please correct). That leads to the vanishing of gravitation-magnetic part in GR. If that part does not vanish then it can be shown that a closed system can be devised with net-energy output.

    I know that NASA investigated a lot of the serious possibilities for "free" energy and came up with NADA. NASA had a project called the Breakthrough Propulsin Project - you can still find it referenced on their website.
  13. Jun 25, 2004 #12
    like i said, i never said i believed the guy, i was stating what he said, and i do not believe in any hidden planets
  14. Jun 26, 2004 #13
    Not with my newly invented 'Detectertron' it isn't! :wink:

    (I'd tell you how it works but the Govt sent spies to watch me and prevent the knowledge from getting into the publics hands.... They keep my device in Area 51..... next to the Alien spacecraft.....)
  15. Jul 19, 2004 #14
    Perpetual Motion Machines

    Anything with a ground state, that is put forward into motion, will eventually come to a grinding halt. Example: planes, trains, automoblies, solar panel generators, windmill generator, nuclear power generators, etc, and because all thing that are put forward into motion from a ground state, does not violate any laws of thermodynamics.

    Interesting point: Perpetual motion machines also have a ground state once they are put into motion making them finite and not infinite.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2004
  16. Jul 19, 2004 #15
    if u would spin an object in a vacuum without the influence of any forces, wouldnt the object keep spinning forever? and if so, wouldnt this be an example of perpetual motion?
  17. Jul 19, 2004 #16
    As stated before, yes perpetual motion is possible, however, a device with > 100% efficiency (puts out more energy than it takes in) is not.
  18. Jul 20, 2004 #17
    Can a Perpetual Motion Believer prove energy comes from nothing?

    Can a Perpetual Motion Believer prove energy comes from nothing?

    Since nothing is an abscence of what a human can sense, perpetual motion can never be proven, because someone would have to first prove nothing(literally) was sensed and then energy appeared. Not knowing the origin of energy is not the same as saying it comes from nothing.

    The energy that exists, which is the only energy we know, can be proven to flow from one state to another, therefore it can be proven to come from something.
  19. Jul 20, 2004 #18
    perpetual motion machines

    There is a new book on the market called, "Guerra's Law". It talks about the "Law of Time, Energy And Motion & Law of Origin". This two laws basically state that all things that are put into motion, from a ground state, a beginning, a point of origin, will eventually come to a grinding halt. The book helps explain what is finite and what is not. It also helps explain that perpetual motion machines and energy are finite and not infinite.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2004
  20. Jul 20, 2004 #19


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    ...which directly contradicts Newton's 1st law and is therefore wrong.
  21. Jul 20, 2004 #20
    Perpetual Motion Machines

    O.K. But, what about Newton's 3nd law of motion? It states: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2004
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