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Perpetual Motion

  1. Apr 18, 2006 #1
    This is a Edit ...

    What Tests and Guidelines would a perpetual motion machine have to pass to be considered legit?

    thanks everyone
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2006
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 18, 2006 #2


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    Welcome to PF molitovv,

    I assume you machine will oscillate, in which case it should do so indefinatly at constant amplitude. Have you created this or is it simply a thought exercise?

    Last edited: Apr 18, 2006
  4. Apr 18, 2006 #3


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    Saying "I've built a PMM" is like saying "I've proved Relativity wrong". By this forum's guidelines, such a statement is considered "overly speculative" and is a violation of the posting rules.

    If the OP merely asked, "what are the tests that a PMM will have to pass ?" that might be accepted. Please read the forum guidelines again, and make sure you stick by them.
  5. Apr 18, 2006 #4
    yes it does,

    it has been going for about 2 weeks, the only thing that i can see that will stop it is wear

  6. Apr 18, 2006 #5
    ok, very sorry..
    i dont know how else to get the information i need, any advice?
  7. Apr 18, 2006 #6


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    And wear is due to what...?


    PS Gokul it right, this post is a violation of the posting guidelines and the thread may be locked at the mentor's discretion. If you have original research it is recommeded that you post it in the independant research forum. However, until otherwise decided I'm going to assume 'you' meant to ask about the conditions for perpetual motion.
  8. Apr 18, 2006 #7
    curious... but how did you go about this project... and perpetual motion in anyhting other than a thought project is.... not reasonably expected to occour, and it does not. you probably used some sort of magnets in an electric motor type scheme did you not? this may eventually rub down on the components, causing enough friction to stop the thing. i have attempted to build super-efficient motors this way, the only hitch is there needs to be some way for a battery to re initiate the spin, with a little extra burst of electro magnetism when it mmanages to stop, such a device should not be too hard to design, but i have not put much thought into the process...

    mabye a good sci-fair project.
  9. Apr 18, 2006 #8
    perpetual motion(energy for nothing) is imposible,but thats not to say a device cannot extract energy from other sources, i beleive you call it a catalist reaction

    for example a water wheel turbine does not generate power by itself, it extracts energy from the moving water and nither the water or the wheel get used up, so by my definition it is a catalist that can turn linier force into rotary force and thus convert enercia into electricity

    an over unity device is often mistakenly called perpetual motion

    over unity is the idea that your input can be used to release or obtain more than you had orginaly,

    the spark from the ignition coil which triggers the explosion in the fuel.

    ZPE devices are not perpetual motion at all they are no diferent from a solar cell or radiant energy collector they just utillize existing energy in the surrounding enviroment

    the problem is physics 101 forbids greater out put than input,and the very mis leading term perpetual motion means that often the term is used to explain the over unity, which is a load of CRAP.and renders the inventor a crackpot, its gunner be a while before people take a second look and start to consider them as energy harnessers and not perpetual motion machines

    To elaborate
    its been established that several unseen types of energy are present everywhere,scalar waves,ultra hi frequency EM waves,background static,cosmic & solar radiation, there is alot of energy we cant see.

    with some magnetic motors it has been proposed that they dont extract energy out of the magnet itself but that its fields interact with these other energy forms, that is where all the extra energy(over unity) is coming from, not the device itself.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2006
  10. Apr 18, 2006 #9


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    From what I understand, the USPTO requires that a device like that operate for a year without external power before they will even review a patent application for it. That has significantly reduced the crackpottery they have to go through, but it isn't foolproof. My watch, afterall, can run for about 3 years without external power.

    Also, there are several ways to define "perpetual motion" and while some violate the laws of physics, some do not. To be specific though, if a device in a closed system outputs a positive amount of power, it is one of the ones that violates the laws of physics. Ie, a solar cell will produce power essentially forever (on a human timescale...), but it isn't a closed system.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2006
  11. Apr 18, 2006 #10
    Right on!, finaly we have a free thinker :smile: :smile: :smile:
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2006
  12. Apr 18, 2006 #11
    thanks for your help guys

    and thankyou for your open mind, RUSS talked about USPTO having guidelines for this sort of thing. does anyone know where i could get those?

    p.s no magnets no motors, no external energy source, and it is a closed system,

    in what way would a perpetual motion machine defy the laws of physics exactly? is it just the energy for nothing thing or would there be other problems?

  13. Apr 18, 2006 #12
    you must have missed something.... or are you not extracting energy? a spining magneticaly suspended flywheel in a vacuum doesnt count, thats called energy storage.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2006
  14. Apr 18, 2006 #13
    well, eventually that would stop wouldnt it, my thing, if you stop it, then let go it will start up by itsself again. but this is the sort of feedback im looking for, cheers
  15. Apr 18, 2006 #14
    as yet no evidence exists anyware to sujest anyway by which energy could be spontaniously created from nothing. though its been said matter apears to be being spontaniously created in some parts of space, matter is energy and this is not understood. untill thats explained i wouldnt rule it out dispite the many laws it may violate
  16. Apr 18, 2006 #15
    your best bet would be to have a respected physicist examine your device,for god sake do not use the words perpetual motion or theyl laugh in your face........

    when you have valid data id sujest trying to get a patent which maybe a little hard,your going find it very hard to get anyone to take you seriously
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2006
  17. Apr 18, 2006 #16
    ok im getting the idea, you never know, i might change the world yet, and many amazing things have been made in home workshops. cheers for the help guys it is giving me an idea of what i have done.
  18. Apr 18, 2006 #17


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    .. and with that, we take you back to our regularly scheduled program.

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