Philosophy Forum is closing

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  • #26
Ryan_m_b
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I do understand, people talk a load of nonsense and it clogs up valuable space as well as wasting valuable moderating time. I just find it disappointing to say "no philosophy forum" period as opposed to taking necessary action to maintain discussion. You'll probably find people continue to post nonsense anyway and moderators will just have to do the same amount of work, in which case it was more beneficial to have the philosophy forum in the first place.
Thank you for the feedback but what necessary action do you think hasn't been taken? The problem is that the majority of threads here just get locked because they don't fit the rules. This section of the forum is underused, attracts crackpots and doesn't add much to the site. In effect it's vestigial and taking up a space that a more relevant subforum could use.
 
  • #27
Drakkith
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I do understand, people talk a load of nonsense and it clogs up valuable space as well as wasting valuable moderating time. I just find it disappointing to say "no philosophy forum" period as opposed to taking necessary action to maintain discussion. You'll probably find people continue to post nonsense anyway and moderators will just have to do the same amount of work, in which case it was more beneficial to have the philosophy forum in the first place.
If we had a Quantum Teleportation Forum that attracted all kinds of nonsense and we chose to close it, would you have a problem with that? I wouldn't because it easily falls under Quantum Physics. Similarly a valid philosophical question should be posted in the General forum. Certain concepts simply attract a lot of people who *think* they know what they are talking about but in reality don't at all. It's far better and easier for practically everyone if we didn't have to worry about attracting those kind of people in the numbers that are attracted to the Philosophy forum. Frankly I don't see what the problem is. We still allow discussion about philosophy, so is it that philosophy just doesn't have it's own forum? Also, keep in mind that philosophy was ALREADY under the general discussion section.

Plus, I guarantee you that the mods will have FAR less work to do without a Philosophy title attracting all kinds of people who shouldn't be here. Unlike most of the rest of the forum, people tend to think of philosophy as having "no rules" and that you don't need to know anything to discuss philosophy. This leads to gross misuse and is simply a huge waste of time.
 
  • #28
Evo
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Plus, I guarantee you that the mods will have FAR less work to do without a Philosophy title attracting all kinds of people who shouldn't be here. Unlike most of the rest of the forum, people tend to think of philosophy as having "no rules" and that you don't need to know anything to discuss philosophy. This leads to gross misuse and is simply a huge waste of time.
BINGO!!

Some people think that if you use REALLY BIG WORDS it's philosophy. :tongue2: Some of the most ridiculously pompous, meaningless posts I've ever read are the ones in philosophy. It's like they think if they make the post hard to read they'll gain credibility, no, it's still nonsense.
 
  • #29
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Thank you for the feedback but what necessary action do you think hasn't been taken? The problem is that the majority of threads here just get locked because they don't fit the rules. This section of the forum is underused, attracts crackpots and doesn't add much to the site. In effect it's vestigial and taking up a space that a more relevant subforum could use.
Instate a rule that says in bold "comply to philosophy educational standards or risk being banned" and then simply ban people when they break the rules.

Having this sub forum is likely a good thing, because while yes it might attract crackpot discussions, at least these discussions are limited to one place. Getting rid of this sub forum won't get rid of people's desires to ask these questions, they will just find somewhere else to ask them and the problem will become more wide spread across the entire forum.

This acts as a learning experience as well. If people want to learn/discuss philosophy they should read the stickies and read the rules and make an effort to comply to your standards. Giving them a temporary ban will likely encourage them to go elsewhere, think about the subject they're discussing and when they return make more effort to stay on topic and keep discussion educational.

Perhaps you've already tried this, in which case ignore what I've said, but I've been around on Internet forums for over a decade now and the one thing I've learned is that having strict rules and having these sort of dust bin sections are a good thing for the rest of the forum. They keep other sections clean and offer a place for people to vent, in this case you're filtering out undesirable posters who do no wish to learn philosophy, people who are likely to show the rest of the forum the same disrespect should this sub forum not be here.
 
  • #30
Evo
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Thanks, but we have no interest in keeping a forum for crackpots. We've had great success in closing forums that were attracting crackpots. The crackpots find other internet homes.
 
  • #31
Drakkith
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Instate a rule that says in bold "comply to philosophy educational standards or risk being banned" and then simply ban people when they break the rules.
PEOPLE. DON'T. READ. THE. RULES.
EVER.
That is a problem with the whole forum, not just the Philosophy forum. I know I didn't even think to read the rules when I first started posting. I'm amazed by things I said back then before I learned about science. Evo, delete all my posts from before 2011!!!

Having this sub forum is likely a good thing, because while yes it might attract crackpot discussions, at least these discussions are limited to one place. Getting rid of this sub forum won't get rid of people's desires to ask these questions, they will just find somewhere else to ask them and the problem will become more wide spread across the entire forum.
The issue is that people who don't know anything about Philosophy don't desire to talk about philosophy until they see the big title of "Philosophy Forum". It invites them in. It coaxes them to it with warm scented candles and a prize at the bottom of the box.
This acts as a learning experience as well. If people want to learn/discuss philosophy they should read the stickies and read the rules and make an effort to comply to your standards. Giving them a temporary ban will likely encourage them to go elsewhere, think about the subject they're discussing and when they return make more effort to stay on topic and keep discussion educational.
The vast majority of people who post in the Philosophy forum do NOT want to learn Philosophy. They want to talk about their own little idea and nothing else.

Perhaps you've already tried this, in which case ignore what I've said, but I've been around on Internet forums for over a decade now and the one thing I've learned is that having strict rules and having these sort of dust bin sections are a good thing for the rest of the forum. They keep other sections clean and offer a place for people to vent, in this case you're filtering out undesirable posters who do no wish to learn philosophy, people who are likely to show the rest of the forum the same disrespect should this sub forum not be here.
The good thing is that people who know little about philosophy don't even associate it with science. The two aren't even related to them. So without a big glaring sign to tell them it's ok to discuss philosophy they won't do it.
 
  • #32
Vanadium 50
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The problem is that the majority of threads here just get locked because they don't fit the rules.
Ah...if it were only just a majority. I just counted. It's 82% that get locked or deleted. Eighty-two percent.
 
  • #33
Drakkith
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Ah...if it were only just a majority. I just counted. It's 82% that get locked or deleted. Eighty-two percent.
Like I said. Vast majority.
 
  • #34
Evo
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People don't read the rules.
 
  • #35
arildno
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Having this sub forum is likely a good thing, because while yes it might attract crackpot discussions, at least these discussions are limited to one place. Getting rid of this sub forum won't get rid of people's desires to ask these questions, they will just find somewhere else to ask them and the problem will become more wide spread across the entire forum.
That fear of oozing is misplaced.
Years ago, PF hosted the socalled "Theory Development" forum where people could discuss off beat ideas (typically their own pet theories).
TD was a terrible place, far worse than today's Philosophy forum, with a lot more people hanging out there with far more idiotic ideas.
I remember there was some apprehension that closing TD would lead to an ooze effect like you refer to, but that never happened.
Instead, those individuals left the whole place.
And, that was a good thing, because it dried up the trickle of ooze into the general forums already caused by the PRESENCE of TD.
 
  • #36
Ryan_m_b
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Having this sub forum is likely a good thing, because while yes it might attract crackpot discussions, at least these discussions are limited to one place....having strict rules and having these sort of dust bin sections are a good thing for the rest of the forum.
Drakkith's already responded with most of what I was going to say so I'll just respond to these two points. It is not my experience that crackpots can be confined and even so we don't want them to be confined, we don't want them at all. We've had forums with less strict rules before where people could develop their own personal theories and what not and the crackpots they attract spread. The fact that we have such forums legitimises and attracts new members and posts that we really don't want. Another reason these dustbins as you call them aren't good is that they can give out such a negative image that guests to the site don't join or participate.

If something on the site is not working I don't see a reason to keep it. As for blowing off steam people can either chill out a bit by posting in GD or do something else other than this forum.
 
  • #37
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I applaud the efforts of the moderators here to make this philosophy forum work and completely understand if they feel it isn't worth the effort to keep open. Just as the sciences have had to struggle to distinguish and distance themselves from superstition and whatnot philosophy is currently struggling to establish a science of linguistics and the resulting confusion and chaos is understandable. I just want the moderators to know in my opinion they have done a super job of trying considering the difficulty of the task.
 

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