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sector99
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Now...exactly when and how do CMB photons lose their 3000˚ K creation energy to become 2.7˚ K?
sector99 said:exactly when and how do CMB photons lose their 3000˚ K creation energy to become 2.7˚ K?
This misunderstanding is so pervasive that we even have a FAQ for it (which you will find if you search the forum for "rest frame photon"). Einstein said no such thing; what he did say is that there is no inertial frame in which light is at rest. Yes, if you assume that such a frame did exist and naively apply the equations of special relativity while setting ##v=c## you would get a division by zero that could be understood as time not passing in that frame - but those equations are derived from an assumption that is equivalent to the assumption that there is no such frame so cannot be correctly applied in this way.sector99 said:how can CMB photons undergo any change ... since time (for the CMB photon) hasn't passed ( dτ0 = 0 ) ?
The above according to Einstein.
mfb said:There is no "time for the CMB photon" and such a thing is not necessary. The wavelength of the photons scales with the overall expansion of the universe. This is a prediction of general relativity.
As this has nothing to do with the original thread I split the post into a new thread.
sector99 said:Just today, Adam Riess clearly admitted that the community "we're missing something". That "something" is so big that it has misled researchers.
sector99 said:The disconnect (apparently from below)
If You moved towards the CMB radiation fast enough, the photons would get all their energy back.sector99 said:As you can see from the abstract of Fahr/Heyl (keywords, above) the phrase "Dark Matter" appears and this is why I chose to post the above paper as well as my query RE: When exactly do CMB photons lose their creation energy from 3000˚ K to 2.7˚ K ? in the Dark Matter thread. It has everything to do with the current, apparently unsolvable impasse confronting cosmologists today.
This isn't the only paper.PeterDonis said:This is not relevant to the topic of this thread.
This paper just repeats the same misconception you gave in your OP. It is not in any way a valid explanation of the "disconnect" you refer to.
PeroK said:If You moved towards the CMB radiation fast enough, the photons would get all their energy back.
Frequency is frame dependent so not an inherent property of the photon itself.
Any photon has different frequency and energy in different reference frames.
sector99 said:This isn't the only paper.
sector99 said:This question is certainly related to (1) expansion rates as well as (2) Dark Matter
The publisher of this article is a known predatory publisher. This paper should be viewed with immense skepticismsector99 said:Just today, Adam Riess clearly admitted that the community "we're missing something". That "something" is so big that it has misled researchers.
The disconnect (apparently from below) arises from the reality that time hasn't passed for the photon. Thus the freely propagating CMB photon carries all its creation energy and frequency until detection. The Fahr/Heyl implication effects (1) expansion rate and (2) vacuum energy density–as shown in the paper's introduction...
The CMB (Cosmic Microwave Background) is a faint, uniform radiation that permeates the entire universe. It is the remnant of the thermal radiation that was emitted when the universe was only 380,000 years old.
The CMB temperature is decreasing because the universe is expanding. As the universe expands, the wavelengths of the photons in the CMB are stretched, causing them to lose energy and decrease in temperature.
The temperature fluctuations in the CMB represent tiny variations in the density of matter in the early universe. These fluctuations eventually grew into the large-scale structures we see in the universe today, such as galaxies and galaxy clusters.
The CMB temperature being 2.7˚ K is significant because it is the temperature at which the universe became transparent to light. Before this, the universe was filled with a hot, dense plasma that obscured light. The CMB temperature also provides important clues about the composition and evolution of the universe.
The CMB was discovered in 1964 by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, who were working on a radio telescope at Bell Labs. They noticed a persistent background noise that they could not explain, and after ruling out all other possible sources, they realized they had discovered the CMB.