How is Pion Annihilation Represented in a Feynman Diagram?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around representing pion annihilation in a Feynman diagram, specifically focusing on the quark composition of pions and the interactions involved in the process π+ + π- → γ + γ.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore how to depict the annihilation of quarks within pions in a Feynman diagram, questioning the necessity of showing individual quarks versus the pions themselves.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on how to structure the diagram, suggesting that the quarks should be grouped within the pions. There is ongoing exploration of whether the lines in the diagram represent valid interactions and how to accurately depict the annihilation process.

Contextual Notes

Participants express confusion regarding the assignment requirements and the complexity of representing quark interactions in Feynman diagrams, indicating a lack of confidence in their understanding of the material.

Physicsphysics
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π+ + π- → γ + γ

How do you represent this in a Feynman diagram showing the individual quark? I am very confused please help!

[Moderator's note: Moved from a technical forum and thus no template. Own effort below.]
 
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Do you know what the pions are made up of? If you don't, look it up. (both have 2 quarks)
 
Are you playing a game?
 
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Replusz said:
Do you know what the pions are made up of? If you don't, look it up. (both have 2 quarks)
Yes, the pi plus is an up and an anti down, and anti up and down for the minus. The only way I can think to draw that is with the down and anti down annihilating into a photon and same for the up and anti up? I'm not sure if there's a way to do it as one diagram?
 
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That is one diagram.
You can connect some quarks with a gluon if you like.
 
mfb said:
That is one diagram.
You can connect some quarks with a gluon if you like.

Um, so far I have this? Is this what you mean?
pion_annihilation.jpg
 
I would start the diagram with the individual pions as groups (first the two quarks of the pi-, then the two quarks of the pi+, or vice versa), even though that means two lines have to cross.
 
mfb said:
I would start the diagram with the individual pions as groups (first the two quarks of the pi-, then the two quarks of the pi+, or vice versa), even though that means two lines have to cross.

Right. Where the lines cross, I assumed another interaction happens? I found this while on a googling rampage
1587057404156.png

from https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/235366/feynman-diagram-pi0-pi0-rightarrow-pi-pi
If this person is right (I am far too inexperienced to tell that as is clear!) then by rotating this through 180° gets another valid diagram. Now, if this is all true, can the quark-antiquark pairs annihilate into a photon each, or do the π0s decay into two photons each like this?
1587058270775.png

Of course the other option is I have overcomplicated this horrendously, but from this fudge of a situation I have this:
1587058445238.png

Thank you for your patience 😅😅
 
Physicsphysics said:
Where the lines cross, I assumed another interaction happens?
No. The position of the lines is largely arbitrary and crossing lines don't mean anything.

There is no weak interaction here.
 
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  • #10
Physicsphysics said:
How do you represent this in a Feynman diagram showing the individual quark?

Why do you want this? A Feynman diagram is a calculational tool, and this calxulation is much easier in terms of pions than quarks. (Probably no`t even possible with quarks, at least not if you want to get the right answer)
 
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  • #11
Vanadium 50 said:
Why do you want this? A Feynman diagram is a calculational tool, and this xalxulation is much easier in terms of pions than quarks. (Probably no`t even possible with quarks, at least not if you want to get the right answer)
This is a task set by my professor and we're meant to show the quarks explicitly. We've been taught the basic rules with Feynman diagrams but honestly not much of the maths so this is almost entirely guesswork. It is quite frustrating with the hilariously superficial "understanding" I have atm 😅
 
  • #12
1587724185591.png

After some discussion, this was the conclusion... Is this correct?
 
  • #13
Physicsphysics said:
After some discussion, this was the conclusion... Is this correct?
mfb said:
There is no weak interaction here.

Are you reading what we write?
 
  • #14
Vanadium 50 said:
Are you reading what we write?
Ok then, I'll assume it's wrong. Thank you for your reply.
 
  • #15
Is this a possible solution
 

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  • #16
mfb said:
There is no weak interaction here.
 
  • #17
Physicsphysics said:
Um, so far I have this? Is this what you mean?
View attachment 260762
You were closest with this. But you didn't start with the quarks grouped into the pions as mfb said in post #7. You don't need any more lines.
 

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