Polygamy Why is it bad?

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  • #1
Why is it bad? What are the benefits?

Discuss.
 
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  • #2
Zantra
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Well of course as a guy my natural inclination is to support it ala mormons, but I'll play devils advocate.

Of course it depends on your true definition of polygamy. If you mean in the mainstream sense, with only the men having multiple wives, then it would be supremely unfair. Is it fair to ask a woman that she be with one man while he in turn is with many others? It's not fair to the person if they have feelings for their husband and it also lowers the woman socially.

If we mean polygamy in the truest sense, where both man and woman have multiple parteners.. well then it derfeats the purpose of marriage alltogether. Marriage is a bond between two people. It elevates them socially and separates them from singel peopel By pursuing polygamy you're taking away that individualism that marriage stand for. In essance it's as if you're not really married, just dating around.
 
  • #3
Depends on how you define marriage, doesn't it? If you define it as a 'social contract between people romantically joined', then any number of people could be involved.
 
  • #4
wuliheron
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People are usually sporadically monogamous which confirs the advantages of monogamy upon the children, as well as allowing for healthy mixing of the gene pool. This is similar to the manner that birds organize and mate, which has clear advantages for a species who's young require a fair amount of resources to raise. Similarly, polygamy allows for the advantages of mixing up the gene pool and spreading the load.

Among birds, males with less healthy genes tend to be the ones who early on look for the best nesting sites and most aggressively defend them from interlopers. With their prized possession, they then attract a mate. However, genetic studies have shown that only about half of the female's offspring will be sired by this male, the other half by males with healther genes. Being uncertain as to which baby is which, the male with the unhealthy genes will help to feed and defend them all. Polygamy confirs similar advantages upon the children, allowing for the distribution of resources and mixing of the gene pool.

At one point in time, the monogamous British royalty became rather inbred. Eventually, Henry the VIII came along and instead of keeping a harum of several wives, he had to kill or otherwise dispose of his previous wives before he could acquire a new one. This rather restrictive process did not help to aleviate inbreeding among the royals, but contributed to their inbreeding. In contrast, middle eastern royalty often possessed harums of up to three hundred wives and inbreeding was never an issue.
 
  • #5
Kerrie
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first off, polygamy does still exist in the mormon culture, just not "legally" -hence, the marriage is not recognized by the state...but, the marriage is acknowledged by the mormon church...a man can have several wives and all will bear children, and then the state can give welfare benefits the what the state considers a single mom...

so, if you have a religion or social organization that has an ordained minister who is accepting of polygamy, then great, but don't expect the state to legally acknowledge the marriage - and there are many benefits to a legalized marriage financially these days, at least in the USA...

i personally wouldn't want polygamous marriage, whether my fiance has multiple partners or myself to have them...the real evidence of how polygamy affects everyone, including the children born of it, could show if it works well or not...
 
  • #6
wuliheron
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That depends upon the culture and the situation. The Tibetan Buddhists practice polyandry, where a woman has many husbands. The amount of land they have for cultivation is severely restricted by their up and down geography. As a result, twenty percent of the population ends up in a Buddhist monestary, usually the youngest son. Instead of the youngest son's genes going to waste, part of the wedding ceramony is for the bride to sleep with each brother in succession.

That this system has worked for them for hundreds of years is undeniable. Likewise, that it is not applicable to expansionist pioneering patriarchal cultures such as ours goes without saying. It is a much more localized phenomenon, for example, instead of sending pioneers to conquer the four corners of the globe, Islamic cultures practicing polygamy tend to merely conquer their neighbors.
 
  • #7
C0mmie
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Are there any animals out there except for humans that practice monogamy? As far as I can recall, humans are the only ones that do while all of the species that are biologically closer to humans practice polygamy. I guess it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that its more natural for a mammal to practice a polygamous lifestyle, and may very well be in our genes.
 
  • #8
wuliheron
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Originally posted by C0mmie
Are there any animals out there except for humans that practice monogamy? As far as I can recall, humans are the only ones that do while all of the species that are biologically closer to humans practice polygamy. I guess it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that its more natural for a mammal to practice a polygamous lifestyle, and may very well be in our genes.

Humans are not monogamous. At best some of us practice sporadic monogamy, cheating on our mates periodically. True monogamy is extremely rare among animals, and among mammals less than two percent practice monogamy of any kind. Birds practice monogamy to an even greater extent than people, but they are sporadic as well.
 
  • #9
Kerrie
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Originally posted by wuliheron
Humans are not monogamous. At best some of us practice sporadic monogamy, cheating on our mates periodically. True monogamy is extremely rare among animals, and among mammals less than two percent practice monogamy of any kind. Birds practice monogamy to an even greater extent than people, but they are sporadic as well.

very true within our genetics, but socially we are taught that it is the "normal" and good way...what is even more interesting is that gay couples also follow this social standard...
 
  • #10
wuliheron
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Originally posted by Kerrie
very true within our genetics, but socially we are taught that it is the "normal" and good way...what is even more interesting is that gay couples also follow this social standard...

Again, this is not just our genetics, it is not nature vs nurture, it is nature and nurture. If gay couples adopt these standards, and then cheat on their partner, it does not support the idea of strict monogamy. On the other hand, fifty percent divorce rates for the last forty years, institutionalized polygamy lasting for thousands of years in other countries, etc. are not short term convient lies or self-deceptions.
 
  • #11
I personally think that strict monogamy is based on negative foundations, and therefore simply doesn't work. Especially and most certainly, the Judeo-Christian marriage is based on ownership, mistrust, and jealousy.
 
  • #12
first off, polygamy does still exist in the mormon culture, just not "legally" -hence, the marriage is not recognized by the state...but, the marriage is acknowledged by the mormon church...

Actually, the Mormon church internally outlawed polygamy in 1890 - all those who are found to practice polygamy are excomunicated from the church. I know this because I was raised a Mormon.
 
  • #13
Again, this is not just our genetics, it is not nature vs nurture, it is nature and nurture

Exactly. I applaud your move past the nature/nurture debate.

Most human cultures are polygamous but many, like ours, are monogomous. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems, but, in my opinion, they can only be outlined by a culture to culture basis.
 
  • #14
Kerrie
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Originally posted by RageSk8
Actually, the Mormon church internally outlawed polygamy in 1890 - all those who are found to practice polygamy are excomunicated from the church. I know this because I was raised a Mormon.

do you reside in utah? yes, it is out lawed but still occurs on the religious level...
 
  • #15
do you reside in utah? yes, it is out lawed but still occurs on the religious level...

Those polygomists that you see on television are not members of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" - they are associated with splinter groups not recogonized by the Mormon church. Polygamy is unheard of in the major cities - Salt Lake, Provo (where both my siblings were born) - and is generally only found in rural communites. Again, if you practice polygamy in the Mormon church you get excomunicated.
 
  • #16
radagast
484
1
Originally posted by C0mmie
Are there any animals out there except for humans that practice monogamy? As far as I can recall, humans are the only ones that do while all of the species that are biologically closer to humans practice polygamy. I guess it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that its more natural for a mammal to practice a polygamous lifestyle, and may very well be in our genes.

The only animal (including humans) that I know that is strickly monogamous are Sea Horses. This has become a survival problem, given they mate for life - and they are being hunted to the point it threatens the species. With the loss of a mate, the Sea horse that is left will not find another mate - this is lowering the reproductive capacities of the Sea Horse population.
 
  • #17
Kerrie
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Originally posted by RageSk8
Those polygomists that you see on television are not members of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" - they are associated with splinter groups not recogonized by the Mormon church. Polygamy is unheard of in the major cities - Salt Lake, Provo (where both my siblings were born) - and is generally only found in rural communites. Again, if you practice polygamy in the Mormon church you get excomunicated.

television? assumptions are not a good habit to get into:wink: this information i received was from a co-worker who visited utah extensively and has a degree in relgious studies...
 
  • #18
television? assumptions are not a good habit to get into this information i received was from a co-worker who visited utah extensively and has a degree in relgious studies...

Then he doesn't know what he is talking about. "Degree in religious studies" in this case most likely means "dislikes Mormons". Your information is frankly false.
 
  • #19
Tail
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Monogamy is "safer".

1. You've always got someone to fall back on.

2. No diseases.

3. You need a union of people to raise children, a bigger union is more likely to fall apart.
 
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  • #20
Zantra
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I have enough trouble keeping one woman happy
 
  • #21
Kerrie
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Originally posted by RageSk8
Then he doesn't know what he is talking about. "Degree in religious studies" in this case most likely means "dislikes Mormons". Your information is frankly false.


http://www.watchman.org/lds/polygamyinutah.htm

this isn't an attack against the entire mormon religion and i am not saying that the majority of the mormon faith is for it...one of my closest friends is a mormon and from what i understand, my homestate of oregon is the second largest in mormon population...

what is interesting is where the governor of utah stands on the issue...http://www.polygamyinfo.com/media%20plyg%2034%20trib.htm [Broken]
 
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  • #22
Originally posted by Zantra
I have enough trouble keeping one woman happy

SO pick up an extra husband...problem solved!
 
  • #23
Zantra
781
3
Originally posted by Zero
SO pick up an extra husband...problem solved!

But see to me, that is self-defeating. It's basically no better than being single. Worse actually, because at least when you're single you live alone!
 
  • #24
Originally posted by Zantra
But see to me, that is self-defeating. It's basically no better than being single. Worse actually, because at least when you're single you live alone!
See, the trick is, you make sure there are close to equal numbers of each...and you get out of doing dishes much more frequently!
 
  • #25
Kerrie
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the whole point of a spouse is to be committed to one person for reasons that help you be a better person...if you choose to be with more then one person at a time, no reason to marry...
 
  • #26
Dissident Dan
237
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Originally posted by Kerrie
the whole point of a spouse is to be committed to one person for reasons that help you be a better person...if you choose to be with more then one person at a time, no reason to marry...

That's fine if that's what you want the purpose to be for you, but there's not reason to impose that on others. Some people (probably most, if they didn't have biases against it, I think) make polyamorous relationships work greatly. I know that there are "swingers" who have great relationships with their spouses but do a partner-switching thing for sexual activities. Sometimes, it's that they really love each other (personality), but they like the variety in sex. Or maybe you want to be married to two people because you really like them both and you couldn't decide whom you like more. These are just examples, and I'm sure that there are many other reasons.

The point is that if a person can find another use for the institution of marriage that is different from what you want out of it or see the purpose as, they're still completely entitled to it. I don't say that you can't have a computer because you don't play 3d games or do computer programming, even though those are two of the largest purposes for computers for me.

---------------------------------

As far as the raising children thing goes, what studies do you have to back it up. I doubt that you do, although I don't have any studies for the opposite, so we're just arguing in the realm of theoretical if we argue this. I have heard that in some tribes, the whole village raises children. I can see some potential good aspects to this:
1) It encourages a sense of community. I know that in the USA, at least, kids tend to be very greedy, maybe that would put some perspective on things that would make them more sharing.
2) The children are exposed to a wider number of viewpoints early on, developing critical thinking skills and being less subjected to the same prejudices that their "always right" parents were

However, there are potential negatives as well:
The children might not have strong close relationships with adults that provide the love and nurturing that are good for kids. Each kid won't be lost in the crowd. This also provides the kids with the ability to feel "special" (which could also be a negative, if you refer back to the greed/community thing).

Either way, this is a pointless topic of debate for those who won't or can't have children.
 
  • #27
Kerrie
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Originally posted by Dissident Dan
As far as the raising children thing goes, what studies do you have to back it up. I doubt that you do, although I don't have any studies for the opposite, so we're just arguing in the realm of theoretical if we argue this. I have heard that in some tribes, the whole village raises children. I can see some potential good aspects to this:
1) It encourages a sense of community. I know that in the USA, at least, kids tend to be very greedy, maybe that would put some perspective on things that would make them more sharing.
2) The children are exposed to a wider number of viewpoints early on, developing critical thinking skills and being less subjected to the same prejudices that their "always right" parents were

However, there are potential negatives as well:
The children might not have strong close relationships with adults that provide the love and nurturing that are good for kids. Each kid won't be lost in the crowd. This also provides the kids with the ability to feel "special" (which could also be a negative, if you refer back to the greed/community thing).

Either way, this is a pointless topic of debate for those who won't or can't have children. [/B]

the major problem with children having many different parental figures is inconsistency...as a parent myself of two children, having too many authority figures with different views of raising children is very confusing for a child...there is a reason why nature has two people as the biological parents and not any more...

i am not against (personally) what people do outside their marriage (as far as switching partners), as it is none of my busines...but when the law allows things such as polygamy to happen, it begins to affect children who are typically raised in a marriage in a country that mostly promotes a monogamous marriage...
 
  • #28
C0mmie
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Originally posted by Kerrie
the major problem with children having many different parental figures is inconsistency...as a parent myself of two children, having too many authority figures with different views of raising children is very confusing for a child...there is a reason why nature has two people as the biological parents and not any more...

i am not against (personally) what people do outside their marriage (as far as switching partners), as it is none of my busines...but when the law allows things such as polygamy to happen, it begins to affect children who are typically raised in a marriage in a country that mostly promotes a monogamous marriage...

The reason nature has it in such a way that we have two biological parents is because this provides for optimal efficiency in diversity and evolution, and it has nothing to do with how kids are raised.

What's wrong with a child growing up in the presence of multiple parental influences?
 
  • #29
Gale
676
2
I'm for polygamy. as long as each partner is open with their partner's other partners. it's like extended friendships. it would defeat sex taboos. i think it would help children to have added adult influence not hurt them. the more differed views a child can see, the better. i think it would in general open up society, if it were generally accepted and practiced by society.

i believe in soul mates, that perhaps a few people out there may have one person with whom they could forever share their life with in happiness and joy. but it seems unrealistic for most.

the idea of one mate seems great sometimes, but usually marrages don't mantian they're original stamina and the soon begin to lack the love they once had. why would a person want to send themselves down a one way road that today, more often than not, leads to unhappines or worse, mere contentness, instead of one that forever leaves open the potential for newfound happiness?

personally, i'd love to reproduce with any number of partners and have it be the norm. i'd love to have more than one person to love me. i'd love to have even been a child with tons of parents, each one who could tell me different stories and give me presents. i'd love to have tons of siblings, i'd love it all. but that's just me, and I'm probably just trying to justify having sex with lots of different people:wink:
 
  • #30
Originally posted by Gale17
personally, i'd love to reproduce with any number of partners and have it be the norm. i'd love to have more than one person to love me. i'd love to have even been a child with tons of parents, each one who could tell me different stories and give me presents. i'd love to have tons of siblings, i'd love it all. but that's just me, and I'm probably just trying to justify having sex with lots of different people:wink:

Will you marry me?

eNtRopY
 
  • #31
Zantra
781
3
Hey don't be greedy You can marry both of us. I get mondays, wednesday,fridays, and sundays:wink:

Of course you don't neeed marriage to justify sex with multiple people:wink:

But I am curious on how Polygamy works. When it is practiced, do they have intimate relations seperately, or is it basically practiced all at once like an orgy? I've always been under the impression that it was maintained seperately, but does anyone know for sure ?
 
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  • #32
FZ+
1,599
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I think the reason that polygamy is generally more prevalent among human society is due to human children's longer period before growing up, and the relatively large amount of energy require to bring up a human child. This requires a reliable source of support, which is earlier societies, a single parent cannot provide. So societies that built up strong monogamist regulations had an advantage in the number of (reproducing, working) adults they produced, and so are favoured. But in modern society, it can be argued that most of these factors no longer apply.

Preying mantises also have one partner at a time. They simply have very messy divorces in between.
 
  • #33
Gale
676
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I'd marry you both, but i fear my mother may oppose, I'm a bit young for either of you :wink:

and as far as orgies go in polygamy, it'd never once even crossed my mind to have it practiced that way. heh... not that i'd mind too much... but I'm pretty sure it's usually mono e mono in the bedroom. but i too would like to know for sure
 
  • #34
Zantra
781
3
Originally posted by Gale17
I'd marry you both, but i fear my mother may oppose, I'm a bit young for either of you :wink:

and as far as orgies go in polygamy, it'd never once even crossed my mind to have it practiced that way. heh... not that i'd mind too much... but I'm pretty sure it's usually mono e mono in the bedroom. but i too would like to know for sure

so she'd be against our ages, but the polygamy thing is ok?:wink:

I highly dought the mormon faith would endorse something like an orgy. Seems more realistic that they would stick to rotations. Hheeh
 
  • #35
Gale
676
2
so she'd be against our ages, but the polygamy thing is ok?

haha, ok, so i hadn't thought into it too well. my mum actually wouldn't be terribly upset about either, she knows I'm completely insane. she'd wig at first but get over it, it wouldn't be the craziest thing i'd ever done...:wink:

anyways, i figure it might also need to be pointed out that polygamy refers just to men having multiple wives, and polgandry when a woman has multiple husbands. Polyfidelity and/or Polyamory mean it goes both ways i guess. so, I'm for polyamory, not polygamy i guess. i actually think that it's terribly unfair to be sexest about it.

so i don't know if thread was meant about polygamy or polyamory, and if it's about polygamy, which i strongly oppose, then i think concubines and bastards and all that should be brought up.
 

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