Pope's Exorcist Squad Wage War On Satan

[Moridin]

Pope's Exorcist Squads Wage War On Satan

The Pope has ordered his bishops to set up exorcism squads to tackle the rise of Satanism. Vatican chiefs are concerned at what they see as an increased interest in the occult. They have introduced courses for priests to combat what they call the most extreme form of "Godlessness." Each bishop is to be told to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight demonic possession.

Father Paolo Scarafoni, who lectures on the Vatican's exorcism course, said interest in Satanism and the occult has grown as people lost faith with the church. He added: "People suffer and think that turning to the Devil can help solve their problems. We are being bombarded by requests for exorcisms." The Vatican is particularly concerned that young people are being exposed to the influence of Satanic sects through rock music and the Internet.

I do not quite know what to say. It seems...strange...somehow.

 

[Gokul43201]

We are being bombarded by requests for exorcisms.

Clearly, it's not Satanism that's on the rise, but loonyism (among bombardiers!)!

 

[arildno]

Yes, papal condonation of wide spread child abuse. What's new?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

By child abuse I assume that you are referring to the teaching of these beliefs?

 

[arildno]

By child abuse I assume that you are referring to the teaching of these beliefs?

I was primarily thinking of the prospective victims of exorcism sessions, condoned by the Pope.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Exorcisms are extremely rare - I think only have a few have occurred over the last fifty years, and these may not have even been sanctioned by the Church. For example, IIRC, the case on which the movie "The Exorcist" was primarily based was not a sanctioned event. [Of course in the movie they throw in every phenomena ever claimed to be associated with so called demonic possessions.]

Is The Daily Mail even a valid reference? I thought this is somewhat of a rag paper like the National Enquirer.

 

[wolram]

The pope must be one of a very few that know what true evil is.

 

[Gokul43201]

Exorcisms are extremely rare - I think only have a few have occurred over the last fifty years, and these may not have even been sanctioned by the Church.

What's "a few"? Fewer than 1000, fewer than 100,000, fewer than 10 million...?

 

[siddharth]

This article claims that the Vatican has denied that the pope ordered the squads

The Vatican has denied a report that Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) plans a new emphasis on exorcisms.
Father Amorth-- who has gained a worldwide reputation as an expert of the subject, and the author of a popular book on exorcism and demonic possession-- told Petrus that a new Vatican document would call for the designation of exorcists in every Catholic diocese around the world. He also said that Pope Benedict would restore the tradition of reciting the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, composed by Pope Leo XIII, at the end of every Mass.

But Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the Vatican press office, flatly denied the Petrus report. The papal spokesman said: "Pope Benedict XVI has no intention of ordering local bishops to bring in garrisons of exorcists to fight demonic possession.”

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=55627

 

[arildno]

Exorcisms are extremely rare - I think only have a few have occurred over the last fifty years, and these may not have even been sanctioned by the Church. For example, IIRC, the case on which the movie "The Exorcist" was primarily based was not a sanctioned event. [Of course in the movie they throw in every phenomena ever claimed to be associated with so called demonic possessions.]

Secondarily, it is also child abuse to scare children about non-existing things like demons.
It is beside the point that the Pope and his exorcists believe in them.
They are, that is to say, morally&mentally incompetent to decide when their faith teachings slide into child abuse, only secularists can have that competence.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I think you make far too much of this. What's more, the claim is that people are turning to Satanism, which goes directly against everything that the church teaches. So clearly the church isn't responsible for this.

It seems that you are pointing your finger at the wrong people. Who is pitching Satanism to kids?

 

[arildno]

Well, what is this horrid rise in the interest of the occult they're referring to?

J.K.Rowling's success, perhaps?
Is she a pernicious influence?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I can't help but think of some modern music that glorifies killing, torture, and rape.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Google

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,190,000 for Satanism

The third hit is titled "The Joy of Satan"

 

[wolram]

Google


The third hit is titled "The Joy of Satan"

Morbid ignorant people, did they say what they think satan represents?

 

[Moridin]

I think you make far too much of this. What's more, the claim is that people are turning to Satanism, which goes directly against everything that the church teaches. So clearly the church isn't responsible for this.

It seems that you are pointing your finger at the wrong people. Who is pitching Satanism to kids?

As a side note, Satanism is not devil-worship. That seems to have been lost in the discussion.

 

[Moonbear]

As a side note, Satanism is not devil-worship. That seems to have been lost in the discussion.

That's what I always thought it was. Now I'll have to look it up. Even so, if it were devil worship, that's hardly the same as demonic possession. It does seem rather funny to be discussing exorcism in this day and age though. It sounds like an exaggerated story, though.

 

[Moridin]

That's what I always thought it was. Now I'll have to look it up. Even so, if it were devil worship, that's hardly the same as demonic possession. It does seem rather funny to be discussing exorcism in this day and age though. It sounds like an exaggerated story, though.

Interview with the head High Priest of the Church of Satan (founded by Anton Lavey in the 1960s).

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/?p=122

It is basically a parody of Christianity with things like "black mass", "black pope" "the 11 commandments", "the satanic bible", "The Satanic Sins" etc.

Click on "Listen Now".

By "Satan" they mean "Adversary" and they call themselves adversaries to all forms of faith-based approaches to beliefs. They are basically a bunch of atheist skeptics.

 

[Gokul43201]

Google

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,190,000 for Satanism

The third hit is titled "The Joy of Satan"

Sure looks like people are turning away from the Good Book in droves. Check out these other growing abominations:

Also from Google

Results 1 - 10 of about 24,200,000 for Lobster

Results 1 - 10 of about 21,300,000 for Shrimp

Results 1 - 10 of about 575,000 for Hair Clipper

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,840,000 for Cotton Polyester Blend

Results 1 - 10 of about 34,500,000 for Pork

But on the positive side, people are now seriously shopping around for slaves:

Results 1 - 10 of about 28,200,000 for Slaves

Joking aside, the ironic thing is that most of the people that either get into Satan worship or those that believe they're possessed by the Devil, likely got their ideas from the Church!

Who is pitching Satanism to kids?

If I were told that there's a God who wants me to do blah1, blah2, ...blahN without questioning any of it or else...and that there's the Devil that wants me to reject the authority of this God, and that wants me to seek worldly pleasures, who would I vote for?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What's "a few"? Fewer than 1000, fewer than 100,000, fewer than 10 million...?

In regards to the Catholic Church, I've only heard of three taking place in the latter half of the century, and I think those all involved renegade priests.

On the other hand, many of the more extreme sects of Christianity perform so called exorcisms as a normal part of their conversion process and even their weekly services. They have fits, roll around on the floor, and speak in [so called] tongues.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sure looks like people are turning away from the Good Book in droves. Check out these other growing abominations:

You specifically ignored the title listed. There is no shortage of hits on satanic pop sites.

Joking aside, the ironic thing is that most of the people that either get into Satan worship or those that believe they're possessed by the Devil, likely got their ideas from the Church!

Beliefs of good and evil go back farther than the church.

If I were told that there's a God who wants me to do blah1, blah2, ...blahN without questioning any of it or else...and that there's the Devil that wants me to reject the authority of this God, and that wants me to seek worldly pleasures, who would I vote for?

Don't lie; don't kill; don't have sex with the neighbors wife; don't be envious of those around you; honor your parents, love your neighbor... horrible stuff. I think you're right - we should teach kids to think of no one and nothing but themselves. Is that what you are defending here?

Again, the church has denied the story.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

As a side note, Satanism is not devil-worship. That seems to have been lost in the discussion.

It refers loosely to all sorts of practices and beliefs that are often associated with evil in the classic christian beliefs. They also refer generally to concepts of self-indulgence as a way of life.

 

[Gokul43201]

Don't lie; don't kill; don't have sex with the neighbors wife; don't be envious of those around you; honor your parents, love your neighbor... horrible stuff.

If you insist. I however, am neutral, in that if you don't defend any of those "rules" through reason, there's no way for me to tell whether or not they are horrible.

Until then, could someone remind the Church that they ought to chastize Osama bin Laden's oldest son Abdallah for not honoring his father, and praise the younger son Saad, a leading member of al Qaeda, for obediently following in his father's footsteps? Then they can chastize Saad for the killing.

we should teach kids to think of no one and nothing but themselves.

No, but we should teach kids to think for themselves.

Is that what you are defending here?

No, I'm just revealing the irony involved in the Church probably being the primary publicizer of the Devil.

 

[Bladibla]

The pope must be one of a very few that know what true evil is.

:rofl::rofl:

 

[Moonbear]

Don't lie; don't kill; don't have sex with the neighbors wife; don't be envious of those around you; honor your parents, love your neighbor... horrible stuff. I think you're right - we should teach kids to think of no one and nothing but themselves. Is that what you are defending here?

There are a lot more things prohibited by the Catholic church than those. It's the longer list that kids start rolling eyes at...the ones like don't have sex until you're married, don't use birth control when you do. If you didn't follow the first rule and did follow the second rule, you have to have that baby, and if you have that baby, you have to have it baptized for which there is a mandatory donation required. We'll ignore the first rule if you get married after you're pregnant and before the baby is born, and if that means you married the wrong person due to youthful indiscretion, then you can't get divorced, but for the right price...oops, donation...you can get an annulment where we pretend neither the marriage, sex nor baby happened. Try to wait until marriage and satisfy some of those urges by your own hand...that's a sin according to the Catholic church too. Is it any wonder teens would just throw in the towel and decide they're already going to Hell so might as well make it worth the trip?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There are a lot more things prohibited by the Catholic church than those. It's the longer list that kids start rolling eyes at...the ones like don't have sex until you're married, don't use birth control when you do. If you didn't follow the first rule and did follow the second rule, you have to have that baby, and if you have that baby, you have to have it baptized for which there is a mandatory donation required. We'll ignore the first rule if you get married after you're pregnant and before the baby is born, and if that means you married the wrong person due to youthful indiscretion, then you can't get divorced, but for the right price...oops, donation...you can get an annulment where we pretend neither the marriage, sex nor baby happened. Try to wait until marriage and satisfy some of those urges by your own hand...that's a sin according to the Catholic church too. Is it any wonder teens would just throw in the towel and decide they're already going to Hell so might as well make it worth the trip?

Funny that as an ex-Catholic I find myself defending the Catholic Church.

The first rule of Christianity is that we strive to be perfect but can never hope to be so. The next is the concept of forgiveness - we are not expected to be perfect, but the Church offers a guide for those who wish to do their best according to the beliefs held by the church.

What I quoted [along with the love of God - choosing good over evil as they are classically defined] is the essence of what Christianity demands. But if you expect yourself to be perfect in order to be a Christian, then you will be quite alone.

When a young adult I left the C church and tried a number of others. In the end, what I came away with is that they all have the same basic message. And a church is not some place like a courtroom; it is a place to find people who have similar beliefs and who offer support in striving to live up to these beliefs. I have often been shocked [aghast, actually] at the attitudes expressed here as they have nothing to do with the church that I knew intimately for twenty years.

If you want to talk about the holy rollers who speak in tongues and roll around on the floor in fits, that's another issue.

I have never heard of anyone who had to pay to get their marriage annulled. What's more, it would be extremely unlikely to be annulled if the couple had produced a baby. However, I believe that divorces are granted now. This is all one reason why the Cs are so big on counseling young people who plan to get married. They won't marry just anyone you know. They try to make sure that the kids are mature enough to handle the responsibilities, and that they understand what they are getting into.

I left the C church and quit attending any churches because in some cases I became disillusioned with the people who run the churches. For me, one of the most difficult aspects of religion is separating the flaws of those promoting the beliefs, from the beliefs themselves. By definition, even the best priest or most devout christian is still a sinner. Also, the rituals grew old and boring, and I certainly do not accept many of the beliefs that are unique to some churches, and even some beliefs that are common to most churches, but I could never find fault with the essential message.

As for the money bit, I can only say that our church was very poor and was barely kept afloat by a very sharp priest who managed to keep the doors open [church and school] on far less money than was needed. And even priests need money to live.

 

[Moonbear]

Funny that as an ex-Catholic I find myself defending the Catholic Church.

I'm an ex-Catholic too, along with many friends of mine, and what I described is how most of us view the church's rules and a good part of the reason most of us are no longer religious.

I have never heard of anyone who had to pay to get their marriage annulled. What's more, it would be extremely unlikely to be annulled if the couple had produced a baby.

That's exactly how my cousin got out of his first marriage (with two daughters, and a civil divorce first) and was allowed to remarry in the church. A good friend's cousin got out of a marriage with one kid the same way. If you are only recently married, and there's good reason for an annulment, there's no payment, but if you have been married a while, have kids, got divorced and realize later that your new fiance wants to get married in a church, a generous donation to the church seems to go a long way toward making an annulment happen. It's horribly corrupt.

They won't marry just anyone you know. They try to make sure that the kids are mature enough to handle the responsibilities, and that they understand what they are getting into.

Uh huh, just like my intern last summer who caught her fiance cheating for the THIRD TIME and the priest counseled them to stay together and seek premarital counseling. Yeah, uh huh, really making sure they understand what they're getting into. She's teetering on being an ex-Catholic after that too (still religious, just not Catholic).

As for the money bit, I can only say that our church was very poor and was barely kept afloat by a very sharp priest who managed to keep the doors open [church and school] on far less money than was needed. And even priests need money to live.

That certainly wasn't the case for the opulent church I attended as a child, or any of the neighboring churches. The rectory had beautiful carved, oak doors...hardly modest living for the priests. When they have parishioners like my great aunt who willed most of their estate to the church (not a small estate either), they were certainly not poor...then again, I bet that if I ever wanted a beautiful church wedding, all I'd have to do is mention my relationship to such a generous donor and my years of non-membership would be overlooked by that church.

Yeah, I'm very cynical about that particular church (not about Christianity in general) because I've seen so many examples of corruption in more than one parish to find it really hard to believe it isn't prevalent throughout the church to go unchecked for so long. Just to be clear, my issue is not about the religion underlying the church, but about the politics of those running it. Many practice that faith fully oblivious to the corruption within the priesthood, and I do not criticize their beliefs or their choice to practice that religion.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Well, "the Church" is a very large and complex organization, so I guess one would expect a wide range of attitudes and practices. What you described wrt the annulment would never would have happened in our archdiocese. As for expectations, I understand the Catholic guilt thing very well. I still remember the last time that I went to confession almost thirty years ago - just about the time that I was having a second try at the C church and while trying to be a perfect Christian. I was telling the priest how I had arrived at this logical paradox where I couldn't justify having any luxuries for myself. How can I drop $50 on a pair of jeans when that could feed 100 starving children for a week [or whatever it was]? Do I really need the jeans that badly? Aren't I morally bound to make better use of my money? He told me to lighten up and go buy some jeans!

There are many levels of maturity associated with being a Christian. You can even find books that talk about the normal progresson of faith in adults. For the most part I don't accept ideas that are uniquely Catholic, but I don't think it's fair to say that one has to be perfect to be a Catholic. You seem to have adopted or been raised with an all or nothing approach to Catholicism, and no one can live up to those standards.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Oh yes, I guess you lived in a nicer neighborhood than we did. Every year was a struggle for our church. Also, there are construction costs and then there is cash flow. A church might look very nice but have no money.