Pope's Exorcist Squad Wage War On Satan

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  • #26
Ivan Seeking
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There are a lot more things prohibited by the Catholic church than those. It's the longer list that kids start rolling eyes at...the ones like don't have sex until you're married, don't use birth control when you do. If you didn't follow the first rule and did follow the second rule, you have to have that baby, and if you have that baby, you have to have it baptized for which there is a mandatory donation required. We'll ignore the first rule if you get married after you're pregnant and before the baby is born, and if that means you married the wrong person due to youthful indiscretion, then you can't get divorced, but for the right price...oops, donation...you can get an annulment where we pretend neither the marriage, sex nor baby happened. Try to wait until marriage and satisfy some of those urges by your own hand...that's a sin according to the Catholic church too. Is it any wonder teens would just throw in the towel and decide they're already going to Hell so might as well make it worth the trip?

Funny that as an ex-Catholic I find myself defending the Catholic Church.

The first rule of Christianity is that we strive to be perfect but can never hope to be so. The next is the concept of forgiveness - we are not expected to be perfect, but the Church offers a guide for those who wish to do their best according to the beliefs held by the church.

What I quoted [along with the love of God - choosing good over evil as they are classically defined] is the essence of what Christianity demands. But if you expect yourself to be perfect in order to be a Christian, then you will be quite alone.

When a young adult I left the C church and tried a number of others. In the end, what I came away with is that they all have the same basic message. And a church is not some place like a courtroom; it is a place to find people who have similar beliefs and who offer support in striving to live up to these beliefs. I have often been shocked [aghast, actually] at the attitudes expressed here as they have nothing to do with the church that I knew intimately for twenty years.

If you want to talk about the holy rollers who speak in tongues and roll around on the floor in fits, that's another issue.

I have never heard of anyone who had to pay to get their marriage annulled. What's more, it would be extremely unlikely to be annulled if the couple had produced a baby. However, I believe that divorces are granted now. This is all one reason why the Cs are so big on counseling young people who plan to get married. They won't marry just anyone you know. They try to make sure that the kids are mature enough to handle the responsibilities, and that they understand what they are getting into.

I left the C church and quit attending any churches because in some cases I became disillusioned with the people who run the churches. For me, one of the most difficult aspects of religion is separating the flaws of those promoting the beliefs, from the beliefs themselves. By definition, even the best priest or most devout christian is still a sinner. Also, the rituals grew old and boring, and I certainly do not accept many of the beliefs that are unique to some churches, and even some beliefs that are common to most churches, but I could never find fault with the essential message.

As for the money bit, I can only say that our church was very poor and was barely kept afloat by a very sharp priest who managed to keep the doors open [church and school] on far less money than was needed. And even priests need money to live.
 
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  • #27
Moonbear
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Funny that as an ex-Catholic I find myself defending the Catholic Church.
I'm an ex-Catholic too, along with many friends of mine, and what I described is how most of us view the church's rules and a good part of the reason most of us are no longer religious.


I have never heard of anyone who had to pay to get their marriage annulled. What's more, it would be extremely unlikely to be annulled if the couple had produced a baby.
That's exactly how my cousin got out of his first marriage (with two daughters, and a civil divorce first) and was allowed to remarry in the church. A good friend's cousin got out of a marriage with one kid the same way. If you are only recently married, and there's good reason for an annulment, there's no payment, but if you have been married a while, have kids, got divorced and realize later that your new fiance wants to get married in a church, a generous donation to the church seems to go a long way toward making an annulment happen. It's horribly corrupt.

They won't marry just anyone you know. They try to make sure that the kids are mature enough to handle the responsibilities, and that they understand what they are getting into.
Uh huh, just like my intern last summer who caught her fiance cheating for the THIRD TIME and the priest counseled them to stay together and seek premarital counseling. Yeah, uh huh, really making sure they understand what they're getting into. She's teetering on being an ex-Catholic after that too (still religious, just not Catholic).

As for the money bit, I can only say that our church was very poor and was barely kept afloat by a very sharp priest who managed to keep the doors open [church and school] on far less money than was needed. And even priests need money to live.
That certainly wasn't the case for the opulent church I attended as a child, or any of the neighboring churches. The rectory had beautiful carved, oak doors...hardly modest living for the priests. When they have parishioners like my great aunt who willed most of their estate to the church (not a small estate either), they were certainly not poor...then again, I bet that if I ever wanted a beautiful church wedding, all I'd have to do is mention my relationship to such a generous donor and my years of non-membership would be overlooked by that church.

Yeah, I'm very cynical about that particular church (not about Christianity in general) because I've seen so many examples of corruption in more than one parish to find it really hard to believe it isn't prevalent throughout the church to go unchecked for so long. Just to be clear, my issue is not about the religion underlying the church, but about the politics of those running it. Many practice that faith fully oblivious to the corruption within the priesthood, and I do not criticize their beliefs or their choice to practice that religion.
 
  • #28
Ivan Seeking
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Well, "the Church" is a very large and complex organization, so I guess one would expect a wide range of attitudes and practices. What you described wrt the annulment would never would have happened in our archdiocese. As for expectations, I understand the Catholic guilt thing very well. I still remember the last time that I went to confession almost thirty years ago - just about the time that I was having a second try at the C church and while trying to be a perfect Christian. I was telling the priest how I had arrived at this logical paradox where I couldn't justify having any luxuries for myself. How can I drop $50 on a pair of jeans when that could feed 100 starving children for a week [or whatever it was]? Do I really need the jeans that badly? Aren't I morally bound to make better use of my money? He told me to lighten up and go buy some jeans!

There are many levels of maturity associated with being a Christian. You can even find books that talk about the normal progresson of faith in adults. For the most part I don't accept ideas that are uniquely Catholic, but I don't think it's fair to say that one has to be perfect to be a Catholic. You seem to have adopted or been raised with an all or nothing approach to Catholicism, and no one can live up to those standards.
 
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  • #29
Ivan Seeking
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Oh yes, I guess you lived in a nicer neighborhood than we did. :biggrin: Every year was a struggle for our church. Also, there are construction costs and then there is cash flow. A church might look very nice but have no money.
 

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