Povertenza or Affluenza: Which Plays a Bigger Role in Sentencing?

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In summary, the 16-year-old boy from a wealthy family killed four pedestrians when he lost control of his speeding pickup truck while driving drunk. He was sentenced to 10 years of probation, which the victims' families and prosecutors were disappointed with. The psychologist called as an expert defense witness said the boy suffered from "affluenza," growing up in a house where the parents were preoccupied with arguments that led to a divorce.
  • #1
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This is a pretty amazingly disgusting decision by the judge IMO

FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — A North Texas teen from an affluent family was sentenced to probation this week after he killed four pedestrians when he lost control of his speeding pickup truck while driving drunk, a punishment that outraged the victims' families and left prosecutors disappointed.

The 16-year-old boy was sentenced Tuesday in a Fort Worth juvenile court to 10 years of probation after he confessed to intoxication manslaughter in the June 15 crash on a dark rural road.

A psychologist called as an expert defense witness said the boy suffered from "affluenza," growing up in a house where the parents were preoccupied with arguments that led to a divorce.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/affluenza-defense-probation-for-deadly-dwi_n_4430807.html [Broken]

http://ourlegaci.com/2013/12/13/please-excuse-davontaye-he-suffers-from-povertenza/
 
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  • #2
Sending that kid to jail for a dose of poverty would have cured his "afluenza".
 
  • #3
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/national_world&id=9357246
Couch's attorneys argued that the teen needs treatment. The judge agreed, saying she doesn't think he could get the therapy he needs in jail.

The teen may end up at a long-term, high-end treatment center in Newport Beach, which costs $450,000 a year. The family would foot the bill.

Oh, jail can be very theraputic. And probably more effective than the ritzy place in Newport Beach...
 
  • #4
Yeah, where's the logic in 'oh he's never had rules enforced on him before', 'Oh OK then we won't enforce them this time either'.
 
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  • #5
"10 years of probation"
Putting off what will happen I believe.
 
  • #6
lostcauses10x said:
"10 years of probation"
Putting off what will happen I believe.

If he is on the outside and being pampered, it will probably not put off his next DUI vehicular homicide. At least if he's on the inside, he can't get drunk and get into his beemer...
 
  • #7
If I was 16 and had that kind of lawyer I wouldn't "get the message". I'd figure I could beat the system again,
 
  • #8
Greg Bernhardt said:
If I was 16 and had that kind of lawyer I wouldn't "get the message". I'd figure I could beat the system again,
Exactly what I was thinking. He hasn't learned any lessons about taking responsibility for his actions, just the opposite.
 
  • #9
Greg Bernhardt said:
If I was 16 and had that kind of lawyer I wouldn't "get the message". I'd figure I could beat the system again,
and he'll go to work on Wall Street as a banker or financier, and maybe he'll become a congressperson. :biggrin:

My sister told me of a similar story of a 16-year old whose dad bought him a Humvee. I don't see why a kid needs such a large vehicle, other than the parents have lots of money and can afford to spoil the kid. Anyway, the kid ran a stop sign (while possibly exceeding the speed limit) and killed another motorist. I don't remember the outcome or punishment the kid received.
 
  • #10
Astronuc said:
and he'll go to work on Wall Street as a banker or financier, and maybe he'll become a congressperson. :biggrin:

That I doubt. He does have a record now if not jail time and most of the schools that would grant admission to Wall Street look at criminal records. And though it is no substitute for a criminal sentence, still to come are the wrongful death liability suits where "probation" is not among the possible outcomes.

The article does not make clear if this was a felony conviction. As for Congress (or the like), a couple years some congressman ran a stop sign and killed somebody (not intoxicated). The felony conviction (manslaughter) means you're done in Congress.
 
  • #11
Wow, watch the last video. This kid has multiple prior arrests, the most recent being alcohol related. He was caught running away from the scene of the crime, and was earlier heard in the background on a phone call telling a friend "I'm Ethan Couch, Ill get you out of this". As if his family can do anything to get out of legal troubles, and they just proved once again, oh yes they can.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/12/health/affluenza-youth/
 
  • #12
mheslep said:
That I doubt. He does have a record now if not jail time and most of the schools that would grant admission to Wall Street look at criminal records. And though it is no substitute for a criminal sentence, still to come are the wrongful death liability suits where "probation" is not among the possible outcomes.
Possible future try:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xsiUJ_sxLM
 
  • #13
Update - 'Affluenza' Teen May Have 'Had a Head Start' in Avoiding Authorities
https://gma.yahoo.com/affluenza-teen-may-had-head-start-avoiding-authorities-175838782--abc-news-topstories.html

Seems Mr. Crouch has decided to flee. Apparently probation is too tough, or inconvenient.

How is it that someone kills 4 people and gets probation, while many who get convicted for lesser crimes (e.g., possession for marijuana) go to prison. Something very wrong with this picture.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/affluenza-teen-investigation-beer-pong-video-surfaces/story?id=35579306
 
  • #15
Astronuc said:
and he'll go to work on Wall Street as a banker or financier, and maybe he'll become a congressperson. :biggrin:

Reminiscent of Animal House. epilogue scene ?

upload_2015-12-28_23-49-45.png
 
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  • #17
I know nothing about the families of the victims. However, in some parts of this great country of ours, this incident would generate several score kinfolk with a wide variety of firearms and edged weapons and imaginative ideas on how best to use them.
 
  • #18
Sweet, sweet belated justice.
 
  • #19
The Texas teenager known for his controversial "affluenza" legal defense is being held at an immigration detention center in Mexico as his attorney fights to delay his deportation and keep him from returning to Texas for as long as possible.
. . . .
Benitez is calling for his client to be extradited, which involves the U.S.-Mexico extradition treaty. The 18-year-old is currently being considered for deportation, which gives him fewer rights under Mexican law.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ethan-couch-attorney-fernando-benitez-fights-deportation-from-mexico/

'Affluenza' Teen Drank at Strip Club in Mexico
https://gma.yahoo.com/affluenza-teen-drank-strip-club-mexico-210546294--abc-news-topstories.html [Broken]

The US government is working on extraditing Couch. His mother was deported by Mexico already and is in jail in Los Angeles.
 
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  • #20
'Affluenza' teen's mom complains about jail conditions
http://news.yahoo.com/affluenza-teens-mom-complains-jail-conditions-171652305.html [Broken]
FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — A "woman with means" who was arrested at a Mexican beach resort city with her fugitive teenage son who invoked "affluenza" as a defense after killing four people in a drunken-driving wreck has complained about the conditions of her Texas jail cell, a sheriff said Friday.

"She expressed a slight displeasure about her accommodations, and I told her this was a jail and not a resort," Tarrant County Sheriff Dee Anderson said at a news conference.
:rolleyes:
 
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  • #21
'Affluenza' teen Ethan Couch drops Mexico appeal, returns in 1 or 2 days
http://news.yahoo.com/affluenza-teen-drops-mexico-appeal-returns-1-2-183732234.html [Broken]
 
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  • #22
‘Affluenza’ Teen Returns to the United States
http://news.yahoo.com/affluenza-teen-returns-united-states-222402038.html

Ethan Couch, better known as the “affluenza teen” responsible for killing for people while driving drunk in 2013, was deported Thursday back to the United States from Mexico, where he fled after fearing he had violated the terms of his parole.

Couch was promptly handed over to a juvenile detention center after arriving at the Dallas/Fort Worth airport.
He's had two years to grow up, as well as apologize to the victims families. It appears he decided not to do so, but instead violated probation and then fled the country to avoid arrest. I think he needs to go to court as an adult.
 
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  • #23
He needs prison time for manslaughter.
 
  • #24
I guess there's no "toxic parent" statute ?

When, as Gracie Slick observed "logic and proportion have fallen softly dead",
Old Time Religion serves a need.
 
  • #25
Astronuc said:
He's had two years to grow up, as well as apologize to the victims families. It appears he decided not to do so, but instead violated probation and then fled the country to avoid arrest. I think he needs to go to court as an adult.

@Boolean Boogay, "He needs prison time for manslaughter."

I respectfully disagree. He had his day in court, and he was handed down his sentence. No double jeopardy. If anything, this unfolding of events has bolstened the "affluenza" defense, which I think is BS, but anyways (as Lenny Susskind likes to say :oldsmile:)...

Plus, this guy was a stupid high school kid who got drunk and got behind the wheel of a car and plowed into some folks and killed them. Terrible yes, premeditated? I don't think so, and that's the important point. As far as the shenanigans after that, it's almost so comical as not to be believed, but no one has gotten (physically) injured, at least. What punishment he and his mom should face for those shenanigans is subject to debate, but the sentence should fit the crime and not the hype, IMHO.

What boggles my mind is why did this kid want to spend two months in a Mexican jail when he knew that he'd eventually have to face justice in the USA? Why not just get it over with? And what justice? 4 months in jail. Big deal. So now he ends up spending 6 months in jail? 4 in the USA and 2 in Mexico? Why didn't he just come right back and get it over with? Has someone dug deeper into this the story who can enlighten me on this?
 
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  • #26
Murder is premeditated, manslaughter is negligence.
 
  • #27
DiracPool said:
He had his day in court, and he was handed down his sentence. No double jeopardy.
Dirac, he was given a 10 year suspended sentence on the condition that he not violate the terms of his probation. It wouldn't be double jeopardy for a judge to impose the full 10 years at this point. Unfortunately, it's doubtful that he will serve that time in any kind of regular juvenile detention facility as his family has proven time and again that they would rather pay for attorneys than for the crimes that they commit.

BTW, for anyone who hasn't read the Wikipedia article on Ethan Couch and his family, it's a real eye opener. Their arrests show a family with a clear disregard for anyone but themselves. The father has been charged or arrested in several cases for criminal mischief, theft by check, assault, and impersonating a police officer. Besides the flight to Mexico with her son, the mother was convicted of reckless driving when she used her vehicle to force another motorist off the road. The son had been driving himself to school from the age of 13. When the head of the school questioned him, the father threatened to buy the school (I guess so that he could fire the guy). At 15, Ethan was sentenced to probation, a compulsory alcohol awareness class, and 12 hours of community service when he was cited for "minor in consumption of alcohol" in an incident where he was caught in a vehicle with alcohol and a naked, passed out 14 year old girl.
 
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  • #28
Borg said:
Dirac, he was given a 10 year suspended sentence on the condition that he not violate the terms of his probation

A suspended sentence? Really? I didn't know that. How come they kept saying the maximum sentence he could receive for violating his probation was 4 months? That was my impression. And I'm not trying to defend this kid, believe me. But I know what it's like to be scared. And if you're a teenager after going what he went through and got caught on an iphone playing beer pong trying to blow off some stress, and you had a suspended sentence, and mom was willing to take you to Mexico...Oh hell, this is getting too complicated. I think the whole family should do 4 months in jail with the requirement that they attend "stupid school" and have to pass before they all get probation for 10 years.

The real insanity of this whole caper, though, is the sort of self-referential absurdity of the whole thing. Here is a kid that that is on trial whose defense for killing 4 people is "lax" parental discipline. So, of course, the solution the judge hands down is "lax" municipal discipline. That's brilliant. We should probably send the judge and jury (if there was one) to 4 months of jail and mandatory "stupid school" along with the "affluenza" family.
 
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  • #29
I've heard the four months bit also but I don't remember where. That might be for not reporting into his probation officer. However, if any proof of him drinking comes to light, I would think that he could have his suspension revoked. I just hope that they send him to a regular juvenile detention facility instead of the summer camps that he was previously sent to.
 
  • #30
While 'affluenza' teen went free, similar case led to prison
http://news.yahoo.com/while-affluenza-teen-went-free-similar-case-led-162247473.html [Broken]
HUNTSVILLE, Texas (AP) — One 16-year-old drove drunk, ran a red light and crashed into a pregnant woman's car, killing her and her unborn child. Another drunken teenager rammed a pickup truck into a crowd of people assisting a stranded driver, killing four.

Jaime Arellano went to prison. Ethan Couch went free.

The poor immigrant from Mexico has been behind bars for almost a decade. The white kid with rich parents got 10 years of probation.

Arellano was charged with intoxication manslaughter and intoxication assault, the same counts against Couch. But prosecutors in Arellano's case moved quickly after his June 2007 crash to send him to adult court. Arellano took a plea deal and got 20 years in prison, where he remains today.
 
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  • #31
Taxpayers pick up bulk of rehab bill for 'affluenza' Texan: newspaper
https://www.yahoo.com/news/taxpayers-pick-bulk-rehab-bill-affluenza-texan-newspaper-230908868.html
Taxpayers paid more than $150,000 of the bill for his year-long rehabilitation because his parents were unable to pay for all of the treatment, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram said, citing court documents.
Hmmmm, "wealthy" and "can't afford" - don't seem to fit together. So taxpayers are liable for a juvenile delinquent, now an adult delinquent, of wealthy parents? Something's wrong with this picture.
 
  • #32
Astronuc said:
Hmmmm, "wealthy" and "can't afford" - don't seem to fit together.

There were probably civil suits. They may not be wealthy any more.

Also, his parents are divorced, which can also complicate finances.
 
  • #34
Borg said:
Ethan Couch got sentenced to 2 years of his jail term today. It's a start.
from that article

Judge Salvant is also presiding over the case of his mother, Tonya Couch.

She is charged with helping her son flee to Mexico. She was released on bail but is under home confinement awaiting trial.

If convicted, she faces up to 10 years in prison.

it's a start .
 
  • #35
Borg said:
Ethan Couch got sentenced to 2 years of his jail term today. It's a start.

He will not do well in prison. Punks like him...well, it's not good to be a punk in prison.
 

1. What is the difference between povertenza and affluenza?

Povertenza refers to the state of being poor or experiencing poverty, while affluenza refers to the state of being wealthy or experiencing affluence.

2. How do povertenza and affluenza impact sentencing?

Povertenza and affluenza can both play a role in sentencing as they can influence a person's background, circumstances, and access to resources. A person's socioeconomic status can be taken into consideration during sentencing, as it can impact their ability to pay fines or afford legal representation.

3. Is one factor more influential than the other in sentencing?

There is no clear answer to this question as it ultimately depends on the specific circumstances of the case and the biases of the judge or jury. However, studies have shown that individuals from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are more likely to receive harsher sentences compared to those from higher socioeconomic backgrounds.

4. Can someone use povertenza or affluenza as a defense in court?

While a person's socioeconomic status can be taken into consideration during sentencing, it cannot be used as a defense in court. A person's actions and intent are still the primary factors in determining guilt or innocence.

5. How can we address the issue of povertenza and affluenza in the justice system?

Some suggestions for addressing the impact of povertenza and affluenza in the justice system include implementing fairer sentencing guidelines, providing equal access to legal representation, and addressing systemic inequalities that contribute to socioeconomic disparities.

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