Feedback on PF's Profanity Filter Needed

[Phobos]

personally, i feel that censorship has no place in an academic environment where the goal should be unrestricted flow of ideas

Name one accredited university science program that allows free-for-all profanity & inappropriate content in the classrooms.

by installing a software filter here, the powers that be at this site have decided that certain words have no place in an academic discussion, regardless of context for those words.

Very few words are filtered. All are easily replaced with other words, if context requires. The words are not pertinent to science-based discussions and they common usage is simply derogatory. I've yet to see a single discussion hindered by the filter.

who gets to decide which words?

In your house, it's your rules. In Greg's house, it's his rules. Your right to speech does not mean Greg is forced to give you a soapbox, as that would infringe on his rights.

Notice that we have not "censored" your profanity in this thread. It's not a big deal. We simply want quality discussions and we don't have the time or desire to proofread every post.

i do not mean to imply by anything i say that i think that discourteous or infantile behaviour should be allowed. i just think that the internet is a place whose founding principle is freedom of expression, not restriction of expression. the internet gives me the ability to converse with a variety of people all over the globe, from many different societies with different morals. should the morals of one society be imposed on everyone here?

So you agree that certain things are inappropriate and that a moderated forum should watch out for it. Nothing is being imposed. People agree to join this forum by their own choice.

Hey, ideally, we'd like no filter. But it is all too common on internet forums for some bad egg to come along and fill every thread with garbage just for the fun of irritating decent members such as yourself.

as it stands now, there are words that i cannot use here on physicsforums that i can use in the following places: while discussing physics with colleagues, while discussing physics with my advisor, while discussing physics on sci.physics.research, and while publishing a preprint on the arxiv. and in all cases, nothing inflammatory, rude, or infantile is implied.

If you have a valid use of a particular filtered word, feel free to use spaces or whatever to get around the filter. We'll have no complaints about it if it's an appropriate usage. If you're here to start flame wars, then yeah, we'll shut that down.

it is worth noting that you can even, on occasion, find the moderators of spr themselves using the occasional curse word in a casual way that i think helps illuminate their points.

of course
again, the filter is a quick & very non-restrictive fix for what would otherwise be a big problem

as it stands, physicsforums is BY FAR the least free place there is to discuss physics,

I find this very hard to believe. Especially since the words are not related to physics in the first place.

 

[lethe]

Name one accredited university science program that allows free-for-all profanity & inappropriate content in the classrooms.

My current uni (and all other unis i have been to) allows me to use profanity in the classroom. I often exercise this freedom, both as student, and as teacher.

i think you are turned around. i don't have to look to find an example that allows profanity. on the contrary, i think it would be hard to find any example that disallows it.

do you really need me to name my uni?

Very few words are filtered. All are easily replaced with other words, if context requires. The words are not pertinent to science-based discussions and they common usage is simply derogatory. I've yet to see a single discussion hindered by the filter.

well, as far as science discussion goes, it doesn't happen often. but if you have yet to see a single discussion that was hindered, then i guess you missed the thread where people recommended Lif****z as a QM textboook.

in fact, that problem was mentioned already here in this thread, so i don't know how you could be unaware.

In your house, it's your rules. In Greg's house, it's his rules. Your right to speech does not mean Greg is forced to give you a soapbox, as that would infringe on his rights.

Of course, greg rules here. however, chroot gave me the impression that the administration is open to changes in policy if people want it. they seem intent on making this a premier academic message board, and are willing to consider any changes that they think will move it in that direction.

Notice that we have not "censored" your profanity in this thread.

huh? what are you talking about? I noticed exactly the opposite: that you have censored me even in this thread.

It's not a big deal.

It's not a big deal to you. it is to me. apparently i am the only one who sees the censorship of profanity as a bad form of censorship.

We simply want quality discussions and we don't have the time or desire to proofread every post.

i don't think that the two goals (quality discussion without intense proofreading and lack of censorship) are mutually exclusive

So you agree that certain things are inappropriate and that a moderated forum should watch out for it. Nothing is being imposed. People agree to join this forum by their own choice.

Hey, ideally, we'd like no filter. But it is all too common on internet forums for some bad egg to come along and fill every thread with garbage just for the fun of irritating decent members such as yourself.

you say this, but i see no evidence of it. over at sciforums, for example, there is no censorship, and people occasionally say "oh s h i t, i forgot the constant of integration" or something like that, but they don't get swamped by foul language

they do sometimes have flame wars with MacM, and profanity comes in, and moderator intervention is required, but like i say below, the flamewars happen and would need intervention anyways. and it is the exception, not the rule.

can you provide me some evidence that if there were no filter, every thread would get filled with garbage? if you cannot, then you and i are in agreement that we would like no filter.

If you have a valid use of a particular filtered word, feel free to use spaces or whatever to get around the filter. We'll have no complaints about it if it's an appropriate usage. If you're here to start flame wars, then yeah, we'll shut that down.

if your goal is stopping flame wars, how does the filter help that? to stop a flame war requires moderator intervention, with or without the filter. i am not saying i am against moderation. i am for moderation. i am simply against censorship.

if you think stopping flamewars is the justification for the censorship, well i am sorry, but that is bull****. flamewars happen with or without bad language.

of course
again, the filter is a quick & very non-restrictive fix for what would otherwise be a big problem

the filter is quick, yes. you find it nonrestrictive, i find it excessively restrictive. is it a fix? i don't think so.

as it stands, physicsforums is BY FAR the least free place there is to discuss physics

I find this very hard to believe. Especially since the words are not related to physics in the first place.

you find this hard to believe? well let me see if i can convince you.

here is a list of the places that i can discuss physics:

1. in real life, with colleagues, advisors, etc. no censorship
2. USENET. no censorship
3. sciforums. no censorship (except the word "physicsforums")
4. physicsforums (profanity filter)
5. other forums, superstringtheory.com or advancephysics.com, also no censorship

now can you see that this is the most restrictive place to discuss physics?

edit: actually, i see that i already gave this list before. so i don't see what is hard to understand. this is the only place on the internet with this censorship. it is in fact OBVIOUS that this is the most restrictive

 

[Phobos]

Well, your concern is noted. Let's see how the poll turns out.

 

[lethe]

Well, your concern is noted. Let's see how the poll turns out.

i think it is safe to say the voting is more or less over. the two dozen or so people who voted on this poll seem to prefer the profanity filter.

 

[lethe]

OK, as i said in my post above, it seems that the people have more or less spoken. personally, i think the poll was rather ineffectual, with very few people voting, but it doesn't really matter. the forum admins of PF have made their opinions known: the censorship is here to stay.

so at this point, i feel like i should just explain a few more things. i have been a long time poster at sciforums, occasionally drawn over to PF for one reason or another. a few times, i have been asked to switch allegiances from sciforums to PF, and have considered doing it. in fact, i had probably already done it. sciforums does have a lot of noise, and there is more physics going on at PF.

i had for a long time known that PF practices censorship, and had chosen to overlook it.

as it turns out, sciforums also practices censorship, of a particularly vile nature. by that, i mean, their censorship is not meant to filter profanity, but is actually designed to restrict speech and exchange of ideas. in particular, one is not permitted to mention physicsforums over there.

when i discovered this, i resolved to leave sciforums. the only problem was, i could not justify to myself leaving sciforums on account of censorship and staying at physicsforums. admittedly, the forms of censorship are different, but i view this as simply a degree of difference, with the underlying principle being the same: one is not allowed to speak any way one wishes.

although i feel i owe chroot some gratitude for opening the matter up for debate, it seems that the admins of this forum seemed more or less unwilling to engage in any kind of healthy discussion over the issue. Phobos engaged briefly with some intelligently put forth (but badly misinformed) arguments, before falling back to a authoritative "well, you lost the vote, so discussion is pointless" standpoint.

aside from Phobos, it seemed to me that no other was even trying to see my point of view, and was simply walking the party line: "profanity is bad for children, therefore censorship is necessary"

the whole discussion left me frustrated and dissatisfied.

i have also explained in some detail my position in a thread on sciforums here

 

[Monique]

..one is not allowed to speak any way one wishes.

This is an issue of moral values. In some people homes when you enter, they ask you to take off your shoes. Moral values apply to the internet too, although some people totally disregard that and start spewing profanities. This thing is just so trivial, you can still walk without having your shoes on.. so just take them off..

 

[Loren Booda]

I would rather have children feel truly comfortable here than exercise a need to use profanity. Physics Forums is much to me like a casual yet professional venue for discussion; I don't cuss at work nor would I as a teacher.