Proof that there are no UFOs?

  • #26
Originally posted by THE[>U<]DUDE
An observer seeing, what appears to them, unexplainable things in the sky does not prove the existance of visiting alien craft. Nor does it disprove it!

Testimony from 'alleged' abductees does not prove the existance of alien abductors. (Nor does it disprove it) It's all a matter of belief, interpretation and trust. Sorta, your oversimplifieing here perhaps??

Courts require evidence to decide a case. Scientists require evidence via observable facts to draw conclusions. Where lies the hard evidence to 'prove' the existance of ET? In this case, the lack of evidence is NOT a conclusive proof.

Let's face it - any race intelligent enough to conquer interstellar flight would be smart enough to mask their visits, thoroughly wipe the minds and memories of their abductees, and leave absolutely no clue as to their little jaunt. Perhaps, but that only suggests that they have been here, do exist, and are real!
So wheres the proof?? (or "disproof" for that matter)
 
  • #27
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
So wheres the proof?? (or "disproof" for that matter)
It's not up to a disbeliever to prove the non-existance of aliens.
The weight of proof lies with the believer - it is down to the believer to prove their beliefs.

I really don't mean to be arguementative, but absolutely NONE of your add-on points solidify the actuality of 'proof' as you call it.

I'm not for one moment saying that the general lack of proof disclaims the existance of ET (I'm open-minded and can be persuaded either way depending upon the believability of evidence). All I'm saying is that considering the apparent 'bulk' of 'evidence' for ET a very small fraction of it actually points towards something inexplicable. And just because something is inexplicable by we mere mortals does not mean there are alien intelligencies behind it!

Your point saying 'but that only suggests that they have been here, do exist, and are real!' is poppycock! Just because we might never detect any ET visits DOES NOT automatically prove that they have happened!

A survey a few years ago showed that over 2% of Americans believed they had been abducted by aliens over the last ten years (and many more than once) - which means over 5 MILLION Americans have been abducted (let alone all the other claimants around the world)! This would involve a whole armada of alien craft (perhaps hundreds) with thousands of ETs busy processing human freight. The US skies would literally be swarming with alien craft!

The real question is: What 'superior' alien race would bother wasting all that 'man'power on we humans?

I remain presently unconvinced ...
 
  • #28
Originally posted by THE[>U<]DUDE
I really don't mean to be arguementative, but absolutely NONE of your add-on points solidify the actuality of 'proof' as you call it. Where do I call anything the "Solidity of actual proof" ?

I'm not for one moment saying that the general lack of proof disclaims the existance of ET (I'm open-minded and can be persuaded either way depending upon the believability of evidence). All I'm saying is that considering the apparent 'bulk' of 'evidence' for ET a very small fraction of it actually points towards something inexplicable. And just because something is inexplicable by we mere mortals does not mean there are alien intelligencies behind it!
O.K.!

Your point saying 'but that only suggests that they have been here, do exist, and are real!' is poppycock! Just because we might never detect any ET visits DOES NOT automatically prove that they have happened! And just where, and HOW please do you derive from my saying "Suggest" to your conlcusion of "Automatically Prove"

A survey a few years ago showed that over 2% of Americans believed they had been abducted by aliens over the last ten years (and many more than once) - which means over 5 MILLION Americans have been abducted (let alone all the other claimants around the world)! This would involve a whole armada of alien craft (perhaps hundreds) with thousands of ETs busy processing human freight. The US skies would literally be swarming with alien craft!
Ya mean some of those people lied???? shame on them!!!

The real question is: What 'superior' alien race would bother wasting all that 'man'power on we humans? Any one that was interested, you know curiosity, like we (humans) exhibit
I remain presently unconvinced ...
O.K. but you should know, I was not trying to convince you of anything, just to be open minded..........
 
  • #29
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0
I don't know if they exist, but I do know that the classic saucer shaped UFO has been around for centuries, and I can prove it. There are manny cave painting showing these unusual craft, there are tapestries and paintings from the middle ages showing saucer shaped objects moving around with somesort of glow or fire about them. My favorite is 'The Madonna and St. Giovanni". There is a link to it in one of the Napsters here, little help Ivan? This prove that it is not just gov't misinfo and not just post-1950's scifi movie caused mass hallucinations.

EDIT: Never mind Ivan, I found it:
http://www.michaelsheiser.com/mshv1n1briefingnanotech.htm#UFOart [Broken]
 
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  • #30
selfAdjoint
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The Madonna painting I can't explain. The earlier ones could all be comets; they look like the picture of Halley's comet in the Bayeux tapestry. Yes even the one with a "pilot"; common theory was that comets were propelled by angels. The one of the Baptism could just be the painter's way of portraying a divine glory uupon the participants.
 
  • #31
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0
Yes, I agree, esp. the one with the baptism because that could just be a temporary hole between heaven and earth that lets heavens light shine down to that spot. It is only the Madonna one on that site that impresses me. I don't know of a website that has the cave paintings, I saw that on TV. I don't know the experts opinion of the cave paintings, so so far it is really only the Madonna one that interests me.
 
  • #32
What an interesting painting!

My first impression is of Luke Skywalker's sandspeeder coming right towards us, but then ...

We have to remember the world these painters lived in. It was tightly governed by religious fervour. Every painting is the artist's personal take on the message trying to be conveyed. Our interpretations as onlookers can be multi-faceted.

Take Dali for example. When people a thousand years hence look at some of his work, will they think that some elephants had long stilted legs, and clocks seemed to melt all the time?

Perhaps this particular artist had had a vision which encouraged him to paint this picture (or a vivid dream). He might very well have seen something his brain attributed to 'supernatural' (as in God-like) and this is just how it came out - a little unusual and strange, glowing with holy spirit. Remember, throughout the ages, the works of Heaven have been seen as beyond human comprehension. Perhaps this enigmatic incarnation of something godly was the artist's way of confirming this.

Will people a thousand years hence listen to Orson Wells narrating his radio version of War Of The Worlds and believe we were once invaded by tripedal Martians?
 
  • #33
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0
You have a good point, and yet there is a UFO in the painting (also, I think it was around 500y ago, not 1000). On a completely unrelated note, I disagree with your signature, reality is not subjective.
 
  • #34
Our perception (often frail) of our reality is different than everyone else's. Our reality is the sum of everything we are, interacting with a physical universe.

I suppose it really depends on your definition take on reality.

Reality has to be subjective - because everything in our lives is!

It's all personal to us, and uniquely viewed through our life-tainted eyes.

As for the painting only being around 500yrs old - I knew that, but gave the 1000yr example because I prefer 'rounder' numbers! And I agree, there is a UFO in the painting - an unidentified flying object - that might have started out life as a spilled blob of paint on the artist's canvas, cleverly reworked into the painting. It's something I did myself at school on one of my own lesser-impressive creations!
 
  • #35
Ivan Seeking
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However, history is like a dream: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Maybe people painted and described exactly what they saw. Of course there are hundreds of other examples of drawings, descriptions, and other lore [even interactive stories] that sounds very similar to modern UFO reports. Still, no matter how interesting or striking a story may be, these accounts are clearly not proof of anything.

I can say this: The more one looks into this stuff, in order to ignore these anectdotal historical artifacts and myths [stories] as trivial, the more one is required to make assumptions.
 
  • #36
363
0
Yes, the accounts are proof of something, but since we don't know what it's proof of, it's kinda trivial to point that out, not to mention that it is only proof to those who experienced it, and not the rest of us who could just as easily assume they are nuts.
 

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