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News Pros and Cons of Abortion

  1. Jan 31, 2004 #1
    I' like all of u to discus the pro & con of this act.
    Many people I have spoken to find this a henious crime.
    One argument I heard was that th only diffrence between afeotus
    and an infant is the location , level of dependance and size.
    They further argue that none of the mother kill their children to
    solve their problem then how canthe killthe feotus?

    I take no sides for I'm still unsure I hope to read ur thoughts
    and take a side so I welcome u all to post ur thoughts here.
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 2, 2004 #2
    All women who get abortions and all doctors who provide abortions will face the Fires of Hell!

    Just kidding.

    Is abortion murder? Well, as I see it, it depends on when the baby actually becomes aware of his existance. If the unborn baby has no consciousness, then I don't think it's murder. What is going through the mind of a 5 month year old fetus? Does he know he exists and therefore does not wish to be killed?
  4. Feb 2, 2004 #3


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    So currently, until what stage in the pregnancy is abortion legal? Is there a large difference between countries, where abortion is allowed, until what time it could be done?
  5. Feb 2, 2004 #4
    Monique this disscusion is to decide whether Abortion is ethical.
    Is it ok to kill that inocent life?
    What I like to know is how do u justify taking inocent lives?
    (I'm not taking sides I just want answers to these Qs so I can decide what is right.)
  6. Feb 2, 2004 #5


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    So according to my believes, you first need to establish at what point during pregnancy it is still acceptable to abort. The question posed here is: when is it life and when is it innocent.

    Is it wrong to tie tubes to prevent pregnancy? Think of all the lives that are being taken that way! Just an example..

    I think a life definately is being taken when the fetus has the ability to live independantly of the mother but is killed. Before that there is a grey area. So now I wonder, where in that grey area is the line current drawn and why.
  7. Feb 2, 2004 #6
    The line most people draw is when the fetus becomes viable outside the womb, around the third trimester.

    This line can be extended in extreme cases such as the pregnancy is threatening the life of the mother, or when the fetus is drastically deformed, such as having no brain. The "partial birth abortions" or late term abortions, which are exceedingly rare despite being discussed so much, are administered in these situations.
  8. Feb 2, 2004 #7


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    the act itself i don't believe is wrong, but the reason for the abortion needs to be individually screened....is a young woman able to support a child pregnant due to carelessness and seeking abortion because it was irresponsible sex? is it a mother who has other children, becomes pregnant, and finds out from a doctor her child will be severely retarded or ill and the costs and risks may not be worth it? was the woman raped, is 16 years old and has a promising life ahead of her? yes, you can argue killing is killing, regardless of the term of pregnancy, however i believe the current laws mandated in the US are adequate and fair...my big problem with abortion (at least where i live) is many women will be careless because of the safety net easily accessed abortion provides...this is where society, health clinics, even schools-yes our public schools need to offer birth control to men and women to prevent unwanted pregnancy...

    you won't stop sex from happening, but if birth control is available and easy to get, you can stop unwanted pregnancies...
  9. Feb 2, 2004 #8
    I'd have to agree with Karrie.

    If a woman just had sex, but did it carelessly and wants to kill the babay just to do it, would that be ethical? On the other hand, if a woman had been raped, wouldn't it be okay to rid her of the horror of the helplessness of the situation of the rape? If the reason is morally substantial, I'm pretty sure that it would be okay for a woman to have abortion performed.
  10. Feb 2, 2004 #9
    when sperm meets an egg, if nothing else is done, the now fertilized egg will usually implant itself into the walls of a uterous, start dividing into more and more cells, and eventually develop into a living person. for me, that this is enough for it to be called living, the same way a child is considered living, even though it is still developing.

    that being said, even if you will think that a fertilized egg is not living, at least agree that it is the beginning of life. i personally believe that not letting a fetus develop into a fully living person is tantamount to murder.

    according to your logic, it seems that it would be ok to kill someone who temporally loses consciousness. at that time, he doesnt know that he exists and might wish to die. you might answer me that this case is not comparable to a fetus, since this person might regain consciousness. well, a fetus will almost certainly gain consciousness when he is born.

    i have heard that in some countries it is illigal. i am not sure which countries those are. in america, thanks to the roe v wade supreme court decision (in my opinion, a terrible decision, but a discussion of that is for another thread), abortion is legal, but the states can place certain restrictions on its use. these restrictions are weakest during the first trimester, and are strongest during the last trimester. actual laws vary by state.

    to tie tubes is not the same as to abort a fetus. without conception, eggs never develop into humans. by stoping conception, you are not murdering. if that is murder, then any woman that chooses not to have children is guilty of murder.

    there is no line drawn there simply because the age at which an underdeveloped fetus can live outside the mother gets lower every day. 100 years ago, almost every underdeveloped fetus didnt survive. today, doctors are able to keep alive even 6 month old fetuses with the help of technology such as incubaters. in the future, they will probably be able to keep alive even younger fetuses.

    it is not wise to say that just because a person will be disabled, his life should end in the womb. many retarded and otherwise disabled people are living fulfilling lives, in spite of their disability. what right does another person have to make decisions about someone elses life before that person enteres this world?

    and if the baby cant be supported, or cant be raised by the parents for whatever reason, the baby should be given up to an orphanage. many people are willing to adopt children, and there is a good chance that this child might get adopted, and live a normal life. and even if he doesn't get adopted, living through a rough childhood, in my opinion, is better than not living at all.

    even in cases of rape and incest, i dont believe the child should be aborted. even though what happened to this woman was terrible and wrong, the bottom line is that there is a child in her woumb that didnt do anything wrong to her, and shouldn't be penalized by being aborted because of someone elses actions. im sorry if this sounds radical and extreme to some people, and i dont think that it is fair that this woman will now go through nine difficult months because of what some evil pervert did to her. but the situation shouldnt be made more fair if that means denying an innocent fetus the right to live.

    the one time that i believe that abortion is required is when the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother. in that case, murdering the fetus is the same as murdering someone who is about to kill you, and is an act of self defense.

    abstinence is the best type of birth control. it has a 100% sucess rate, unlike other forms of birth control. it is available to everyone for free, and requires nothing more than some willpower.
  11. Feb 2, 2004 #10


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    Just to put another point into everyone's minds (which may or may not be relevant depending on your views), if it's ethical for a woman to abort, is it also ethical for a woman to refuse if a man wants his kid aborted?

    (Interestingly, the only time I've seen this point raised was by a feminist who was defending male rights, in the context of accusing other feminists of being hypocritical in their views of what rights women should have)
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2004
  12. Feb 2, 2004 #11


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    Wow, that IS a tough one. One more reason to have safer sex? Of course, accidents happen. There can be no good solution to that situation that I can see.
  13. Feb 3, 2004 #12
    My attitude is that until it comes out of the mother, it is only a potential person. After all, 50% of pregancies abort themselves in the first trimester, and we don't have funerals for them, do we?
  14. Feb 3, 2004 #13


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    but you are forgetting that when a man consents to having sex, he is also taking the risk of pregnancy...if he does not want this risk, he shouldn't have the sex...
  15. Feb 3, 2004 #14


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    so, if a child is 39 weeks to term, it's okay to kill it? many babies are able to live fully healthy lives past 36 weeks term, the main reason they stay inside till 40 weeks is to gain a little more weight and fully make sure the lungs are developed...there is a reason why U.S. abortion clinics don't abort past 12 weeks term because of the grey line monique is referring to...zero, you are correct in stating that many fetuses abort themselves in the first trimester , once the first trimester passes, the chances of carrying the pregnancy to term dramatically increases, and then it is more then just a potential person, but a human being that is growing and forming...a woman who is 30 weeks along cannot just get an abortion at that point, because she has chosen to carry it this far, why not wait another 6-10 weeks and give it for adoption?

    it's interesting to see how many people's views change some once they have children of their own, whether they are a mother or a father, it has an effect on you...
  16. Feb 3, 2004 #15

    Well if it's the male that's pregnant, then sure he can get an abortion. The point is that it's the woman's body, and it should be her choice to make.
  17. Feb 3, 2004 #16
    There's more eating on a 39 week old fetus...

    I'm all for the unlimited 1st trimester abortion, and the restricted 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions. I'm also all for passing out condoms and birth control and emergency contraceptives.
  18. Feb 3, 2004 #17

    jimmy p

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    woah i didnt know that Zero. Thats some scary stuff. Well I have to agree with English law when you can have an abortion before 26 weeks. However i only believe that abortions should be had if the baby was concieved under bad circumstances eg, the mother is too young, or the mother is a victim of rape, or the child will be retarded.

    The problem is that you dont know what is gonna happen if they dont want the baby. If the abortion doesnt go ahead then the parents could be cruel to the baby or whatever so its a thin line to tread.
  19. Feb 3, 2004 #18
    You know, though, I've seen what happens to people who have kids they don't want...they raise disfunctional kids who end up making at least as many mistakes as their parents do.

    Plus, I am offended by the underlying 'pregnancy as punishment' theme that lurks under the surface. When people say 'you had sex, deal with the consequences', I always hear it reducing the fetus to the role of 'Divine retribution'...and if that kid suffers, too bad, it serves him right for being a bastard.
  20. Feb 3, 2004 #19

    jimmy p

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    I agree with you Zero. It isnt the child's fault that it has bad parents or is unwanted.

    I dont understand why pregnancy is a punishment, rape victims dont have a reason to be punished, and young parents know the consequences of unprotected sex, there are no myths about pregnancy, its the 18th century or in fact 50 years ago. Its not a punishment cos they did it to themselves.

    OK OK it sounded better in my head...
  21. Feb 3, 2004 #20


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    pregnancy is not a punishment for sex, it is the end result of sex...that is why the human body was designed to have sex-for the purpose of pro-creation...the good feeling that accompanies sex is not the end result, but the bait that lures one to desire sex...

    having the mindset that sex is only for fun is what gets people into situations of having to decide if they want an abortion or not because they did not have protected sex...i wonder how many abortions that are performed are for this very reason-irresponsible sex as oppossed to aborting retarded child to be, a rape that occurred, or health reasons to the mother...
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