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Proving You Exist

  1. Jan 6, 2004 #1
    People who try to prove with "facts" that God is either real or not real are just wasting their time. You don't have to try to prove anything. YOu cannot even prove that you exist. Because as soon as you do prove to me that you exist, then it becomes a memory, and who knows, the universe could have been created 2 seconds ago, and no one would be wise to it, because we could have all been created with our memories. So memory is not a reliable source for proof.
    So it is scientifically unsound to say, "God isn't real there is no proof for his existance." because there is no proof for your's either. So what i am saying is, even with scientific data about the universe, u still cant be sure of how it actually works.
    So God could still exist. Nothing can prove it or disprove it. Everything is faith.
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 7, 2004 #2
    I think therefore I am? No, a bit lame I guess.

    I used to think that my brain was the coolest part of my body. Then I thought, What's telling me that?

    If God is making me think I've lived for a while, then he's doing a good job at it. It makes most sense to ourselves to think we don't have planted memories, so we assume we dont. It works, so why does it seem worth while to prove your existence when you can't. I am aware, and I live a life. If we aren't real, then its amazing how I care about things.
  4. Jan 19, 2004 #3
    Deep very deep.... There is a human quest for wanting to believe that there is a GOD of some sort because of the fear that we are alone... If it is that we are alone what is the point of continuing? if there is nothing to strive for, what is the point of the human race?
  5. Jan 19, 2004 #4
    Exactly. And what I dont get about atheists is they believe there is no true purpose for themselves. They believe in no afterlife, so there ultimately is no point in doing anything during life if it all ends at death.
    Now I ask, what is the point in believing that there is no point?

    Let me just say i am not discriminating against atheists, im only asking a question.
  6. Jan 19, 2004 #5


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    Life is a wonderful thing in itself. You don't have to sell yourself fairy tales to appreciate it. Self-actualization, whatever that means to each one of us, is sufficient. We all die in the end, believers and non, just don't get uptight about it.
  7. Jan 19, 2004 #6
    Proving your own existence seems to me desperate and an attempt that cannot make anything clearer whatsoever.

    The mouth that pushes out the breath, the body that moves and touches the surroundings, vision and sound, motion and that there is something there is enough proof for me. More complicated than that it isn't.
  8. Jan 21, 2004 #7
    watch the movie "the matrix" if u havent already. That way you may be able to grasp this concept better.
    and no, i dont believe in the matrix, but its a good movie to learn this idea of "reality" and what things are and what they could be.
  9. Jan 21, 2004 #8
    I am familiar with the subject. I have seen Matrix.
  10. Jan 21, 2004 #9


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    This is something of a classic misconception.

    Atheists don't believe that life has no point, but that we must apply that purpose ourselves. One might ask the counter-question: what is the point of living, if there is an infinitely superior afterlife beyond? In any case, the conclusion is that there is something of value in life regardless of its destination.

    There are levels of faith. And the qualifier of considering alternative theories, and guaging the fecundity of a hypothesis are still useful. In other words, believing yourself to exist has only alternatives that are far worse, and is also useful in making other conclusions. The same cannot be said for god.

    No one, as far as I am aware, has ever said that any sort of God could not exist.
  11. Jan 22, 2004 #10
    Presuppositions must be made in this life (whether it is real or not) the only thing that matters is that the life we live is in OUR perception. Would the revelation that we were created not but two seconds ago by a being for its idle amuzement change the perception that we have existed the extent of our perceived lives? In my opinion I do not believe so. If a being (and lets assume it is telling the truth) reveals it just created us two seconds ago, but nothing about the way we live has been altered besides the fact residing in our minds that we were just created, our perceptions of the lives we have lived will have been no different than if the fact is true that if we were created in the normal flow of human understanding. It seems most would agree that we cannot prove anything to be completely 100% accurate so why would thinking about a tenet or idea that cannot ever be considered 100% accurate, and thus, impossible to prove change anything in our perception of life, as it is, now. As for the charge that atheists believe life has no point, this is your misinformed and usually religiously based ideal behind your obvious philosophical beliefs in god and the impossibility of anyone not believing in a higher-beings ability to appreciate life. I assure your assumption is incorrect. I love life for whats its worth, to me. Though the belief in a god has facets of applicability in the debate between what can be proved and what cannot be proved I do not believe that the personal beliefs of a individual, especially with regard to a higher being changes anything substantially.
  12. Jan 22, 2004 #11


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    "I exist" is an axiomatic statement. It cannot be argued, because, to argue it, you must first assume it is true. It must be true.

    - Warren
  13. Jan 22, 2004 #12
    And in the same vein, you can only prove something given some axioms. You can't just say "prove this" (unless the axiom system you are using is implicitly given).
  14. Jan 25, 2004 #13
    Saying the universe was created two seconds ago serves no practical purposes. Proof of the pudding is in the eating, you know, so that doesn't really go well with a universe that was created two seconds ago. No one really cares if it's not real and just memories or it's real and memories, it'll still taste good. What we have to do is do away with the people who want to take away our pudding.
  15. Jan 26, 2004 #14
    "I exist" is an axiomatic statement. It cannot be argued, because, to argue it, you must first assume it is true. It must be true.

    - Warren

    But how do I know that we're not in some matrix world or something similar. There is no way to prove anything real. Sorry to burst your bubble. I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything, I'm simply stating this one thing as an "axiom" That nothing can truly be proven... (and I know about the whole implications of it being a paradox, theres no need to talk about it, I already understand it)
  16. Jan 26, 2004 #15

    I wrote an entire essay named basics in order to help people clear up this silly issue.

    Nothing is for certain. Even this statement. (dispute this instead)

    Though some things are more probable than others.

    Ie. I pick up an apple and drop it 20 times, when i let go of the apple on the 21st time I will expect it to fall.

    The same applies to my existance, your existance and god's existance if you want. It is called scientific method, the rest is history. Reasonning and logic also come in somewhere.

    Enough of this garble I say.
  17. Jan 26, 2004 #16

    And 'the_truth' It is existence, not existance.
  18. Jan 26, 2004 #17
    I don't think that axiom is practical enough to be considered an axiom. Its purpose demeans conversations and I don't see how anyone is going to take it as valid argument to incur the wrath of God or something similar. Do you truly find it meaningful to say such a horrible thing? It serves a bad purpose, like having your pudding mugged from you. A nice substitute for this spontaneous axiom is a heartfelt "Chill out." I don't see what stating our inability to be 100% absolutely correct is meant to achieve except to cause complacency via annoyance, avoid death, or something like that. So chill out.
  19. Jan 26, 2004 #18


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    It doesn't matter whether you exist in some matrix world or not. The "realness" of the universe is not in question. The statement "I exist" is absolutely true, because to argue it, you must first assume it is true. (You cannot argue it if you don't exist.) I suggest you think about it some more.

    - Warren
  20. Jan 26, 2004 #19
    Im kind of leaning towards both warren's and "the_truth's" opinion.

    I think of it as an algebraic equation like:
    y=mx+b. There is no one answer, because we don't have all the axioms (values for m, x, y, and b.)
    Therefore, we can use an infinite combination of numbers as long as they all add up to "y."

    If we had all the axioms, facts, values, or whatever you want to call them, then we could come up with a definite "proof."
  21. Jan 26, 2004 #20
    This is exactly why I'm agnostic. We can't assume what we will never know. The only thing we know is that we know nothing. Just leave it at that. :smile:
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