Purpose of the universe

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Does the universe have a purpose for being?
Does humanity have a purpose for being?

Without a knowing agent there can be no known thing.
The universe is a thing, humanity is a knowing agent therefore the universe can be known to exist if humanity becomes aware of the universe’s presence.

To know and to communicate the awareness as to the existence of the universe is the purpose of Humanity. To be the knowing

To be known to exist is the purpose of the universe. To be the known
 

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  • #2
verty
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We are in the universe so we don't know about the existence of the universe as such. The universe is not a fixed thing, it is the totality of what exists. I would even refrain from calling it a thing.
 
  • #3
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We are in the universe so we don't know about the existence of the universe as such.
Humanity is a thing that came into being because of the environmental conditions within the universe being adequate.

The universe is not a fixed thing, it is the totality of what exists.
Are you sure about that? The universe is a natural event within the nature of things.

I would even refrain from calling it a thing.
Our universe is not a sentient being it is a thing that contains other things. Our universe is a thing within it’s environment. Within our universe are multiple things that create the environment of being. One of the things within this environment is the collective humanity.
 
  • #4
verty
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Our universe is a thing within it’s environment.
What environment is the universe in? Seeing as it is all that exists, it's environment is that of nonexistence.
 
  • #5
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The potential for a thing to become depends on the conditions of the environment.

It can be said, that the reason for the existence of our universe is the conditions that existed before, during, and after the universe came into existence met the criteria of being sufficient for it to become.

Once the universe came into being it then interacted with other things within it's environment.

The interaction with other things allows all things to change.

Change is part of being.
 
  • #6
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You didn't answer the question asked previously though. You used looping logic.

The question is, in what environment does the universe exist, if your hypothesis is unequivocally true?

Furthermore, who is to say we are the only 'knowing agents'? You have concluded the entire universe apart from us human beings is 'the known.' How can you make that determination without exploring the entire universe?

Before the modern age, some bands of people were unaware of the existence on earth of others. Who is to say this is not possibly the case with regards to the unvierse?
 
  • #7
verty
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The potential for a thing to become depends on the conditions of the environment.
So you argument is:
#1: The potential for a thing to become depends on the conditions of the environment.
#2: The universe is a thing.
#3: The universe became.
-> There existed an environment, the conditions of which determined at least partially the becoming of the universe.
I have trouble with #2 and #3. The universe is not a thing, it supervenes over all things, and the universe can't be said to have become. It seems wrong to say that before there was existence there was nonexistence, because I don't see how you can apply time to that at all.

Hmm, or perhaps the universe is the one thing that does not become, but then please motivate why it should be considered a thing.
 
  • #8
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For there to be a thing there must be space for it to exist in.
For space to exist there must be an event in time that space existence within.
First, a time event for which the space exist within, and then a thing becomes within the space.

Things exist within a period of time within the space required. As with all "things" it can exist, may exist, does exist, and will go out of existence. Some "things" have an ability to influence it's space during it's time of existence. Our universe is one of these "things." One of the universe's abilities is to create an environment that is suitable for a "knowing" "living" entity to sustain existence long enough for this entity to "communicate" it's awareness, as to the existence of the "universe" to another "knowing" "living" entity. By doing so, our universe joins the realm of the known.

The universe exists so it can become known and humanity is the knowing agent. This event is the highest final form within the structure of the universe. All other actions within the universe are either moving towards this event, coming from this event, or stuck in a non-motion towards this event. I will also go so far as to say that if there are multiple "verses," which I believe there are, each one of these "verses" are also either moving towards this event, coming from this event, or stuck in a non-motion towards this event.

Humanity so far is all we are aware of that has the ability to communicate it’s awareness of the universe to another living knowing entity. I would like to think that there are others out there because as of now, we are only talking to ourselves and you know where that gets you.
 
  • #9
verty
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You're preaching a religion. You believe there are multiple verses, huh?
 
  • #10
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Not religion…
I am writing about the philosophy of purpose
That is the question is there only one universe...maybe... maybe not, we don't know do we?
 
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  • #11
verty
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But you believe there are. That goes beyond questioning.
 
  • #12
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Yes, I think there are.
Our universe is a natural event.
Humanity is a natural event.
It is only when it becomes known to exist that it reaches the final moment of presence.
I also theories that only after we communicate with other like kinds in other parts of the natural being of existence will our universe become known to exist. Until then our universe may only “be” but it will not be known to be.
 
  • #13
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You haven't answered any of my questions...
 
  • #14
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You haven't answered any of my questions...
I do not believe we are the only ones but as far as we know, we are... The only way we will find out for sure is to remove our dependence on false ideologies that limit our true purpose.
When the first humans gazed into the cosmos and rationalized themselves as being part of a larger creation, humanity's search for purpose began. After many generations of promise, the search for purpose has become corrupt by misguided ideologies that channel Humanity down roads of destruction and despair. This corrupt mindset has placed a sense of mistrust and powerlessness to the results of any search for an alternative religious reality. While many cultures today believe, they have found the true destiny for our existence; most simply have created false and distorted views of purpose and guide their followers down irreversible paths of deception.
The universe exists in the environment of space.
Space is within the moment in time.
The environment of our universe is the action of it existing in space with other things
The universe is one of the things that exist in the space.
Key: for time and the time event of a "verse"
<---------------------------------------------------------------------------> = endless time

>------------------------------------< = event of time a uni-verse exists

Multi-verse theory

<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>-------------------< verse #1
>-----------------------------------------< verse #2
>-------------------------------< our "universe"
>----------< verse #4
>---------------------------------------------------< verse #5

And so on, each "verse" can exist at the same time as any other verse or before or after.

Because there "is" a verse and a verse is a thing that exist within an event of time in the space allowed it follows that a verse can, does, and may exist. However, the only way to know for sure is if the verse is able to create an environment that is suitable for a "knowing" "living" entity to sustain existence long enough for this entity to "communicate" it's awareness, as to the existence of the "verse" to another "knowing" "living" entity.
 
  • #15
Astronuc
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And I thought it was to find the Ultimate Question to the rather simple answer - 42. :rofl:
 
  • #16
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And I thought it was to find the Ultimate Question to the rather simple answer - 42. :rofl:
“Apathy is the absence of hope”…Entity
 
  • #17
verty
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I do not believe we are the only ones but as far as we know, we are... The only way we will find out for sure is to remove our dependence on false ideologies that limit our true purpose.
This is pure religion, not philosophy.
 
  • #18
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This is pure religion, not philosophy.
I am not expounding any deity or divine intervention.
I have not asked or written about some moral imperative.
Explain or address your concerns philosophically.
 
  • #19
verty
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You are preaching: remove our dependence on false ideologies and accept your true one. I'll not say more in this thread.
 
  • #20
Astronuc
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“Apathy is the absence of hope”…Entity
Not quite, and not very original. That quote comes from the Hadith. It would be more accurate to say that "Despair is the absence of hope."

The laser weapon to smash problems is a characteristic called hope, while the absence of such a quality is called ‘despair’ or ‘hopelessness.’
http://www.crescentlife.com/spirituality/hope.htm [Broken]

Futhermore, 2 questions and a set of presumptive declarations without any supporting commentary does not consititute philosophy or the study thereof.
 
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  • #21
verty
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Actually, hope is a substitute for acceptance, it allows one to delay accepting the inevitable. Of course, some things (like death) can't be delayed, but that's where religion steps in with its eternal life. Religion and hope go well together, but one can live contently without relying on either.
 
  • #22
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Actually, hope is a substitute for acceptance, it allows one to delay accepting the inevitable. Of course, some things (like death) can't be delayed, but that's where religion steps in with its eternal life. Religion and hope go well together, but one can live contently without relying on either.
I will agree with this.
However, preaching, teaching, and speaking all have value.
I am only asking what you think and what you feel is necessary with the purpose of existence.
You may find fault with how I ask and what I may say but still my point is that the universe can only be known by a knowing agent, which is what humanity fulfils.
How is this religious? I am attacking the absurdity of the after life concept not trying to join it.
 
  • #23
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Not quite, and not very original. That quote comes from the Hadith. It would be more accurate to say that "Despair is the absence of hope."
Futhermore, 2 questions and a set of presumptive declarations without any supporting commentary does not consititute philosophy or the study thereof.
I was just trying to offer something besides the three dog night quote.
Do you have anything your own to add?
 
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  • #24
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I do not believe we are the only ones but as far as we know, we are... The only way we will find out for sure is to remove our dependence on false ideologies that limit our true purpose.
When the first humans gazed into the cosmos and rationalized themselves as being part of a larger creation, humanity's search for purpose began. After many generations of promise, the search for purpose has become corrupt by misguided ideologies that channel Humanity down roads of destruction and despair. This corrupt mindset has placed a sense of mistrust and powerlessness to the results of any search for an alternative religious reality. While many cultures today believe, they have found the true destiny for our existence; most simply have created false and distorted views of purpose and guide their followers down irreversible paths of deception.
The universe exists in the environment of space.
Space is within the moment in time.
The environment of our universe is the action of it existing in space with other things
The universe is one of the things that exist in the space.
Key: for time and the time event of a "verse"
<---------------------------------------------------------------------------> = endless time

>------------------------------------< = event of time a uni-verse exists

Multi-verse theory

<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>-------------------< verse #1
>-----------------------------------------< verse #2
>-------------------------------< our "universe"
>----------< verse #4
>---------------------------------------------------< verse #5

And so on, each "verse" can exist at the same time as any other verse or before or after.

Because there "is" a verse and a verse is a thing that exist within an event of time in the space allowed it follows that a verse can, does, and may exist. However, the only way to know for sure is if the verse is able to create an environment that is suitable for a "knowing" "living" entity to sustain existence long enough for this entity to "communicate" it's awareness, as to the existence of the "verse" to another "knowing" "living" entity.
By "cultures" did you mean "religions"?
Either way, you say most lead to despair, meaning not all do. So, which ones don't lead to despair?
 
  • #25
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By "cultures" did you mean "religions"?
Either way, you say most lead to despair, meaning not all do. So, which ones don't lead to despair?
Sure, any ideology that promotes life on earth as having a higher moral value than death. However, they are rare.

Humanity in general views psychological and physical persuasion of others as being a legitimate form of obedience. This creates a sense of powerlessness and despair within the masses. I believe this force is innate within the human struggle to exist in it’s environment and is compounded by any culture, be it religious or secular that places a higher moral value on death than that of life. They use the act of death as a form of persuasion to guide their followers. This can be done many ways. A promise of an after life that is better than that on earth or simply believing that death is morally just when there is a higher purpose “the State” are just a couple. Maybe you can think of some examples, too.
 

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