QED question: Photons absorbed and emitted by electrons

In summary, the conversation discusses the dynamics of virtual and real photons and their interactions with electrons, specifically in the context of quantum field theory. The concept of time in these interactions is questioned, and it is suggested that in order to fully understand the dynamics, one must learn about QFT. Klauber's "Student Friendly Quantum Field Theory" and Zee's "Quantum Field Theory in a Nutshell" are recommended as resources for learning about QFT. It is also mentioned that QED is the simplest form of QFT that describes interactions in our world.
  • #1
dsaun777
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According to QED photons can be absorbed or emitted by electrons, and this process results in em forces via virtual photons. What determines the emitted photon frequency, and are they fully absorbed by electrons assuming photons are discrete and must be in quantized packets? How fast are photons absorbed, instantaneously because all the energy must be transferred? How fast are they emitted? Meaning is there a delta t measuring the energy/time process.
 
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  • #4
It is in general not meaningful to talk about a time for that process.
 
  • #5
mfb said:
It is in general not meaningful to talk about a time for that process.
So it is unknown...
 
  • #6
"Not meaningfull" is something different than "unknown". For example, where is the 'north' direction on the north pole? Do you think it's meaningfull to talk about that?
 
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  • #7
weirdoguy said:
"Not meaningfull" is something different than "unknown". For example, where is the 'north' direction on the north pole? Do you think it's meaningfull to talk about that?
Yes, if it is meaningless then surely it must have meaning as to why its meaningless.
 
  • #8
dsaun777 said:
surely it must have meaning as to why its meaningless.

I would say it's contradictio in adiecto.
 
  • #9
weirdoguy said:
I would say it's contradictio in adiecto.
Maybe time is not the right word but electrons do interact with photons and I'm interested in these dynamics.
 
  • #10
Then you'll have to learn a lot of quantum field theory.
 
  • #11
weirdoguy said:
"Not meaningfull" is something different than "unknown". For example, where is the 'north' direction on the north pole? Do you think it's meaningfull to talk about that?
Interesting question ;-)). I'd say it's perpendicular up!
 
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  • #12
dsaun777 said:
Maybe time is not the right word but electrons do interact with photons and I'm interested in these dynamics.
As @mfb is saying, then you have to learn QFT (it's fun and addictive ;-)). To answer the question qualitatively: It is impossible to intepret the QFT dynamics in terms of particles during the "interaction process". That's why what's usually calculated with QFT are socalled S-matrix elements, describing the probalities that in a scattering process a given "asymptotic free incoming state" (for technical reasons usually two particles like the two protons colliding in the LHC, far away from each other so that you can assume them to be non-interacting) goes into a given other "asymptotic free outgoing state", i.e., some particles that are far enough from each other so that you can consider them as non-interacting.

For times "at the scattering process", i.e., when the incoming and procuced particles are close to each other it is not clear, how to intepret the field dynamics in terms of particles at all, i.e., it's even a bit schizophrenic to formulate the first half of this sentence ;-))).
 
  • #13
mfb said:
Then you'll have to learn a lot of quantum field theory.
QFT or QED? I want to know photon electron interactions nothing else for now.
 
  • #14
Well, one usually starts learning QFT from QED so o0) Anyway, if you really want to delve smoothly into technicalities I recommend Klaubers Student Friendly Quantum Field Theory. It focuses on QED only, most of the derivations are outlined in great details and Klauber devotes one whole chapter to show that pop-sci myth about virtual particles (or whatever) popping in and out of existence has no basis in QFT.

 
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  • #15
weirdoguy said:
Well, one usually starts learning QFT from QED so o0) Anyway, if you really want to delve smoothly into technicalities I recommend Klaubers Student Friendly Quantum Field Theory. It focuses on QED only, most of the derivations are outlined in great details and Klauber devotes one whole chapter to show that pop-sci myth about virtual particles (or whatever) popping in and out of existence has no basis in QFT.
How well does nutshell cover qed and qft in comparison?
 
  • #16
Well, I paused for a while after reading the first chapter (I want to finish his group theory book first), but some people say (well, @vanhees71 says :oldbiggrin:) that Zee tried to fit too much in his nutshell and it didn't end up well. It may be a good read, but after you know something on the subject, so that you won't be distracted by some things that didn't end up well didactically.
 
  • #17
QED is the easiest QFT that describes an interaction in our world.
 
  • #18
dsaun777 said:
How well does nutshell cover qed and qft in comparison?
You mean Zee's book? It's funny to read if you know QFT already. I've no clue, how one can understand it if you don't already know it from this book. It's too brief and partly superficial. My favorite intro book is

M. D. Schwartz, Quantum field theory and the Standard
Model, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York
(2014).
 
  • #19
vanhees71 said:
You mean Zee's book? It's funny to read if you know QFT already. I've no clue, how one can understand it if you don't already know it from this book. It's too brief and partly superficial. My favorite intro book is

M. D. Schwartz, Quantum field theory and the Standard
Model, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York
(2014).
Why Schwartz? Is he a relative or something😁. I have a friend that is sending me Kaku's quantum field theory a modern introduction, any thoughts on that?
 
  • #20
Kaku is good too. I'm not related to Schwartz in any way. It's just that I think it's a very good QFT book at the introductory level. If you prefer a path-integral-only approach, another one is Bailin, Love, Gauge theories.
 

1. How do photons interact with electrons in QED?

In QED, photons interact with electrons through the process of absorption and emission. When a photon is absorbed by an electron, it causes the electron to jump to a higher energy level. When the electron falls back to its original energy level, it emits a photon.

2. What is the significance of photons being absorbed and emitted by electrons?

The absorption and emission of photons by electrons is a fundamental process in quantum electrodynamics (QED). It explains how light interacts with matter and is essential in understanding the behavior of particles at the atomic and subatomic level.

3. Can electrons absorb and emit multiple photons at once?

Yes, according to QED, electrons can absorb and emit multiple photons at once. This process is known as multi-photon absorption and emission and is observed in certain physical phenomena, such as the photoelectric effect.

4. How does the energy of photons affect their interaction with electrons?

The energy of photons determines the frequency and wavelength of light, which in turn affects their interaction with electrons. Higher energy photons have a shorter wavelength and are more likely to be absorbed by electrons, causing them to jump to higher energy levels.

5. What are some real-world applications of QED's understanding of photons and electrons?

QED's understanding of photons and electrons has led to numerous technological advancements, such as the development of lasers, solar cells, and medical imaging techniques. It also plays a crucial role in fields such as quantum computing and telecommunications.

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