• Support PF! Buy your school textbooks, materials and every day products Here!

QM - Find <E>

  • Thread starter quasar987
  • Start date
  • #1
quasar987
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
4,773
8
There's this question ngyah (Liboff 5.33) that says

"We consider a particle in an infinite 1-dimensional well. The particle is described by an arbitrary wave function [itex]\psi(x)[/itex]. (a) For this particle, show that [itex]<E> \geq E_1[/itex]. (b) What is the condition on [itex]\psi(x)[/itex] such that [itex]<E> = E_1[/itex]?"

My solution: First of all, I'm assuming that by <E> he means <H>. But <H> = E. And E is the energy associated with the superposition of the sine waves that make up [itex]\psi(x)[/itex]. So

[tex]E = \sum_{i=1}^{\infty}c_i E_i[/tex]

where the c_i are either 1 or 0 depending on wheter or not [itex]\psi_i(x) = sin(k_ix)[/itex] is present in the Fourier expansion of [itex]\psi(x)[/itex]. This said, if [itex]\psi_1(x)[/itex] is in the expansion of [itex]\psi(x)[/itex], then [itex]E = E_1 +... \geq E_1[/itex]. If not, then [itex]E = 0\cdot E_1 + ... + 1\cdot E_j +... \geq E_1[/itex].

And for (b), the condition on psi is that psi be exactly psi_1.

That looks pretty neat to me. The only point I'm unsure of is wheter or not, it is true that the energy of a psi made up of a linear combination of other psi_i is the sum of the energy of the psi_i. Actually, this seems FALSE to me. For suppose psi_1 and psi_2 are solution of the time ind. SE with respective energy eigenvalues E_1 and E_2. Then let's see if psi = psi_1 + psi_2 is a solution with eigenvalue E_1 + E_2.

[tex](E_1+E_2)\psi = (E_1+E_2)(\psi_1 + \psi_2) = E_1\psi_1 + E_2\psi_2 + E_1\psi_2 + E_2\psi_1 = H\psi_1 + H\psi_2 + E_1\psi_2 + E_2\psi_1 = H\psi + E_1\psi_2 + E_2\psi_1 \neq H\psi [/tex]

So the energy of psi_1 + psi_2 is not E_1 +E_2. Correct? :frown: Hopefully I'm missing something.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
quasar987
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
4,773
8
Arg, it's assuredly wrong, for any function that requires an infinity of sine waves to be constructed will have an infinite energy. :frown:
 
  • #3
CarlB
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
1,212
9
quasar987 said:
Arg, it's assuredly wrong, for any function that requires an infinity of sine waves to be constructed will have an infinite energy. :frown:
Yes. If you have a wave function that is not an eigenstate of the Hamiltonian, it's energy is not a precise number. What the instructor was asking for was <H>, which means the average of the energy.

If c_n are the (complex) amount of \psi_n that you have to use to make up your (normalized) wave function \psi = \sum \psi_n, then


[tex]\langle E \rangle = \langle \psi |E| \psi \rangle[/tex]
[tex] = \sum_n \sum_m c_n^* c_m \langle E_n| H |E_m\rangle[/tex]
[tex]= \sum_n \sum_m c_n^* c_m E_m \langle E_n | E_m\rangle[/tex]
[tex]= \sum_n \sum_m c_n^* c_m E_m \delta_n^m[/tex]
[tex]= \sum_n c_n^* c_n E_n[/tex]
[tex]= \sum_n |c_n|^2 E_n < \infty[/tex]

Since [tex]\sum_n |c_n|^2 = 1[/tex], you can see that the maximum that <E> could be would be the highest of the E_n, which is less than infinity.

Hope this helps.

Carl
 
  • #4
quasar987
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
4,773
8
I'm not used to the notation you used. What is <psi|E|psi> ?
 
  • #5
CarlB
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
1,212
9
quasar987 said:
I'm not used to the notation you used. What is <psi|E|psi> ?
I don't know what book you're being taught out of, but here goes:

[tex]\psi(x) = \langle x|\psi\rangle[/tex]

That is, [tex]|\psi\rangle[/tex] is just the ket associated with the state [tex]\psi[/tex].

It could be that in your book / class, they haven't covered the bra-ket formalism yet. In that case,

[tex]\langle \psi | M| \psi \rangle = \int_{-\infty}^\infty \psi^*(x) M \psi(x) dx[/tex]

for wave functions in one dimension. In the above, M is an operator.

Did this help?

Carl
 
  • #6
quasar987
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
4,773
8
CarlB said:
It could be that in your book / class, they haven't covered the bra-ket formalism yet. In that case,

[tex]\langle \psi | M| \psi \rangle = \int_{-\infty}^\infty \psi^*(x) M \psi(x) dx[/tex]
Now we're talking the same language! :biggrin:
 
  • #7
quasar987
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
4,773
8
Your way seems kinda complicated CarlB with double sums and stuff. Here's mine..

[tex]<E> = \sum_{n=1}^{\infty}E_n|c_n|^2[/tex]
[tex]<E> = E_1|c_1|^2 + E_2|c_2|^2+... \geq E_1|c_1|^2+E_1|c_2|^2+... = E_1 \sum_{n=1}^{\infty}|c_n|^2 = E_1[/tex]
 

Related Threads for: QM - Find <E>

  • Last Post
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
6
Views
519
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
9
Views
456
  • Last Post
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
852
Top