• mouseman
In summary, the conversation delves into the topic of the two-clock experiment and whether gravity affects the progression of time or the mechanics of each clock. The consensus is that the results of the experiment align with the prediction that the difference in gravitational potential causes the difference in time. There is some discussion about the possibility of time being absolute and how light speed travel may affect time dilation. It is also mentioned that the concept of time dilation can lead to a problem of cause and effect.
mouseman
I asked this question on the old forum but i didnt get a chance to see if anyone answered it, so i apologize for the repetition:

Firstly I want to say that I am totally new to theoretical physics so please bear with me. In regards to the two-clock experiment, would it be at all possible that gravity was not affecting the progression of time, but the mechanics of each clock? I ask this not to claim that time is absolute. Just to question the validity of the experiment.

Thanks

No, it's not possible. It is the difference in gravitational potential that causes the difference in time.

Even if the clocks were in a perfectly uniform Field, where each clock felt exactly the same force of gravity, the higher one would run faster.

The experiments performed give results that match this prediction. If it were the force of gravity that each clock felt that caused the difference, you would get different results than the predicted one.

In regards to the two-clock experiment, would it be at all possible that gravity was not affecting the progression of time, but the mechanics of each clock? I ask this not to claim that time is absolute. Just to question the validity of the experiment.
Certainly any experiment can be improperly conducted. But we have some EXTREMELY accurate clocks. If the results were due to bad clocks, the results would be random and you could see the deviation with the clocks sitting next to each other. But they aren't and you can't. The results agree exactly with predictions and comparisons of clocks for calibration yields a high degree of consistency..

Originally posted by Janus
No, it's not possible. It is the difference in gravitational potential that causes the difference in time.

Even if the clocks were in a perfectly uniform Field, where each clock felt exactly the same force of gravity, the higher one would run faster.

The experiments performed give results that match this prediction. If it were the force of gravity that each clock felt that caused the difference, you would get different results than the predicted one.

When you say "in a perfectly uniform Field", are you saying there is no difference in gravitational potential between the clocks? If so, how would there be a difference in time?

Originally posted by mouseman
I asked this question on the old forum but i didnt get a chance to see if anyone answered it, so i apologize for the repetition:

Firstly I want to say that I am totally new to theoretical physics so please bear with me. In regards to the two-clock experiment, would it be at all possible that gravity was not affecting the progression of time, but the mechanics of each clock? I ask this not to claim that time is absolute. Just to question the validity of the experiment.

Thanks

I think the point of the experiment is that there is no difference between those two discriptions. Gravity is affecting the mechanics of everything within the area of gravitational influence. If time is seen as a measurement of the motion of things, then slowing the mechanics of everything is slowing time.

Originally posted by LURCH
I think the point of the experiment is that there is no difference between those two discriptions. Gravity is affecting the mechanics of everything within the area of gravitational influence. If time is seen as a measurement of the motion of things, then slowing the mechanics of everything is slowing time.

I see a difference. In one, the different clocks are still ticking in the same absolute time frame, they just tick differently. In the time dilation interpretation, one clock is in the future of the other clock. This leads to a problem of cause and effect.

Originally posted by Eyesee
I see a difference. In one, the different clocks are still ticking in the same absolute time frame, they just tick differently. In the time dilation interpretation, one clock is in the future of the other clock. This leads to a problem of cause and effect.

This was what I think I was getting at. I need to think about it alittle more. But I also have another question that's kinda related:

If time is warped by gravity I can understand how time can differ for an observer in interstellar space opposed to one on a planet, but according to the twin paradox, light speed travel by the interstellar observer would accelerate this time difference. But how would light speed travel affect anything if the speed of light is constant? If the speed of light is the same for all observers, time would appear to flow at the same rate no matter how fast one is travelling,assuming the observer has the same gravitational field acting upon him at all time during travel. Wouldn't this be the case? (Like someone stationary relative to a planet vs. someone orbiting that same planet, at the same distance, at or near the speed of light.)

You can only observe time dilation in a frame different than yours, whether it is because of gravity or because of motion. Problem with interpreting the time dilation as a difference in simultaneity is that you can actually travel to the future and to the past, depending on your frame. If in your frame, the year is 2003 but in the other frame, the year is 2103, when you travel to the other frame, you should have aged 100 years, but once you go back to the other frame, you would become 100 years younger. That's pretty retarded.

Originally posted by Eyesee
When you say "in a perfectly uniform Field", are you saying there is no difference in gravitational potential between the clocks? If so, how would there be a difference in time?

When I say a uniform field, I mean that there would be no difference in the gravitational force felt by either clock.

There would still be a gravitational potential difference due to their respect heights in the field.

Eyesee wrote:"Problem with interpreting the time dilation as a difference in simultaneity is that you can actually travel to the future and to the past, depending on your frame. If in your frame, the year is 2003 but in the other frame, the year is 2103, when you travel to the other frame, you should have aged 100 years, but once you go back to the other frame, you would become 100 years younger. That's pretty retarded."

Time dilation does not involve traveling into the past. Going to to a certain frame would never make anything younger once it was older, ever.

Time dilation is limited to slowing the rate of aging of one clock relative to the other. If you know of an interpretation of Relativity theory that actually states time travel into the past, or where once a man reached age 133, he could be 33 again - please post a link here. It would be interesting

1. What is the purpose of the two-clock experiment?

The purpose of the two-clock experiment is to test the theory of relativity proposed by Albert Einstein. It aims to demonstrate the concept of time dilation, where time passes differently for two observers in different frames of reference.

2. How does the two-clock experiment work?

In the two-clock experiment, two clocks are synchronized and then placed on a moving object, such as a rocket. One clock remains on the rocket while the other is left on Earth. The experiment measures the difference in time between the two clocks when they are brought back together.

3. What results have been observed in the two-clock experiment?

The results of the two-clock experiment have consistently shown that the clock on the moving object measures time slower than the clock on Earth. This supports the theory of time dilation and the concept of relative time.

4. Are there any limitations to the two-clock experiment?

One limitation of the two-clock experiment is that it can only be conducted with objects that can travel at high speeds. This makes it difficult to replicate in everyday life. Additionally, there are other factors that can affect the accuracy of the experiment, such as gravitational fields.

5. How does the two-clock experiment impact our understanding of time and space?

The two-clock experiment has had a significant impact on our understanding of time and space. It has confirmed the theory of relativity and has led to the development of new technologies, such as GPS, which rely on the principles of time dilation. It has also challenged our traditional understanding of time as a universal constant and instead shows that it is relative to an observer's frame of reference.

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