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Question: Electromagnetism, Weak-force, Gravity, Strong Nuclear force ?

  1. Jul 18, 2004 #1
    Great work has been done in the last while on the Four fundamental forces, but is there a fifth ?

    Is there a Force Number 5 :confused: ?

    I saw a discussion on this other website



    the age of the universe progresses, and with enough time, will new forces manifest? If we go back far enough in time, when the age of the universe was only a fraction of the current age, we know that the strong force, the weak force, electroweak force, electro-magnetism, etc were unified as one force. This is in the presence of extremes, such as the temperature of the universe 3 to 4 seconds after the big bang, density, etc..We know that we had a unification of forces at that stage, and as the universe cooled, these forces "went their separate ways".....



    Astronomers have recently discovered that the very distant galaxies are actually accelerating into the drakness of Space.The more distantgalaxies are gradually accelerating outward, propelled by some mysterious force. Is this evidence of the elusive 5th Force that physicists have been looking for?? Dark Energy is strange it's, well, weird. A freakish thing happened some billion of years ago, the expansion started accelerating, not slowing down, as would be expected from gravity. Could this strange dark energy be called a fifth force of nature, ready to be dicovered with amazing properties and help physics like the great ideas alongside electromagnetism, gravity, and the strong and weak nuclear force, but it could also represent a new type of particle, or maybe anti-wave particle the energy wave function or exotic particle could be some kind of energy field that was unknown until now. Some cosmologists favor the quintessence model, which says that a fifth fundamental force is acting to push the expansion of the universe. It could be new new gravitational physics that drives the expansion, which may have some new interaction that we not yet seen to affect something
    it could be the fifth force. It might be just another aspect of gravity that we have not seen before such as an anti-energy or anti-gravity function of normal gravity

    what do you think ? Is it possible :biggrin:
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 18, 2004 #2
    would not an anti gravity serve to cancel out its counter part
  4. Jul 19, 2004 #3
    not unless if u had a much greater amount of anti gravity than of gravity
  5. Jul 19, 2004 #4
    What if there was a single force particle. 1 particle that did it all.
  6. Jul 19, 2004 #5
    it's a strange idea,
    but wasn't all that anti-energy and anti-matter and negative anti-particles supposed to have vanished ? I mean if you go back to the early moments in time, before our sun and before the formation of galaxies to the time of the Big bag wasn't there a battle between the positive and negative energy..matter Vs anti-matter and didn't positive matter win out to form the creation of matter. At the later push the inflation of the universe also lead to creation of other forms like Z particles, muons, quarks..until the further on the bulding blocks of atoms were formed until particles could become fused and neutrons came together or combined to produce a nucles of heavy hydrogen or deuterium or isotopes of hydorgen..if all this anti-energy or anti-matter was wiped out in the early universe the where does this new fifth force fit in and why does it display a nature which could be described as anti-gravity..was the poster right in saying with enough time, will new forces manifest in our universe or is this wrong ?
  7. Jul 22, 2004 #6
    Stellar Tourist, you are right about the whole formation of the universe. There was that battle that you mentioned, between matter and antimatter. Matter in the end won, because supposidly the big bang created more matter than antimatter. Today we know that this is impossible...to create any particle, along with it is created the anti of that partcile. For example, you could create an electron with an x-ray, but with it a positron would also be created. This is the big puzzle of the univerese now, if you must create particles in pairs, then why do we have a universe made of matter. There are a few things that have been proposed. The most common is that there are still concentrations of antimatter in universe far away from our surrounding galaxies. In other words, there could be anti-galaxies and anti-stars out there. Possibly with anti-students going to anti-schools :). Another possibility is that the laws of physics didnt apply to matter in the first seconds of the birth of the universe as they apply to it now. These explanations havnt been proven in any way, but people right now are trying to detect incoming antipartciles from space. If we detected for example an anti-nitrogen atom entering our atmosphere at relativistic speed, it would tell us that there are anti-stars out there somewhere.
  8. Jul 22, 2004 #7
    Antimatter is actually not very different from matter. Since they both emit identical photons, propagate identical sound, and identical gravity. So...antimatter wouldnt have antigravity. In other words...an anti-piano would sound just like a normal one. They would also look then same, there would be no way to visually tell them apart. And you wouldnt float up on an anti-earth. :D
  9. Jul 22, 2004 #8
    Instead of a force number 5, you might consider the idea of a force number 0, an additional force at the beginning, rather than at the end.
  10. Jul 22, 2004 #9
    True, but photons do exert radiation pressure. Consider what Sakarov (spelling?) brought up about the BB, that initially the BB created 1 billion and 1 matter particles for each 1 billion anti-matter particles, and the anti-matter particles and matter particles annihilated leaving only that 1 in 1 billion preponderance of matter. The annihilation produced many-many photons.

    Depending on how early the annihilation happened in the BB, the radiation pressure caused by the annihilation could have fueled some of the expansion phase.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2004
  11. Jul 22, 2004 #10
    Actually there are only 3 forces now: electro-weak, strong and gravity. And I really don't like calling gravity a true force so there are only like 2, but thats my opinion.
  12. Jul 26, 2004 #11
    So are weak forces officially not a fundemental force?
  13. Jul 26, 2004 #12


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    Most of the geometric solutions are analogies to help explain, or diagram, what we know about forces in the universe. Singularities are where the math we use break down into nonsense. The universe, fortunately, does not obey the laws we attempt to apply to it. The four fundamental forces are very solid, by the math and observations we currently understand. Some have been unified, some have not.
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