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Question on moment

  1. Nov 21, 2011 #1
    Question on moment !!!

    1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data

    Mb ( moment about b ) = 20k
    B = (3,4)
    F (force) = 5i-2j

    2. Relevant equations

    Find the equation .

    3. The attempt at a solution
    Mb =r*F
    r= BA where A is a point on line of action of force
    let A=(a,b)
    r=A-B = (a,b) - (3,4) = (a-3,b-4)
    Mb = (a-3,b-4) *(cross) (5i-2j) = (-2a-6)-(5b-20) k
    ( -2a-6-5b+20 )k = 20k
    -2a-5b=6 ------> (1)
    what to do else ?!!!
    hope to help me
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 21, 2011 #2

    Simon Bridge

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    Re: Question on moment !!!

    Welcome to PF
    Note: there is inportant information missing from your description:
    Units for force, and I don't recognize "k" as a unit for torque (moment).
    I take it that point B is the location of the pivot (you didn't say)?

    your problem statement does not include a problem - you have failed to state which equation you are expected to find. Without a clear description of the problem, you cannot find a solution.

    It looks like you have been asked to find the length of the moment arm - in which case you need to know if the force is perpendicular or not.
     
  4. Nov 21, 2011 #3

    SteamKing

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    Re: Question on moment !!!

    k is the unit vector perpendicular to i and j (This is a vector problem)
    Units would be nice, but are not essential to solving for a and b.
    Without another piece of information, I don't think a and b can be determined.
     
  5. Nov 21, 2011 #4
    Re: Question on moment !!!

    okay,,
    Look K represents a unit vector perpendicular to the plane containing A & B
    SO how to solve equation ?!!!
     
  6. Nov 21, 2011 #5

    Simon Bridge

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    Re: Question on moment !!!

    There is not enough information to help you.
    You have not stated the problem - what is it you are supposed to be doing?
    Are you supposed to be finding the moment arm?

    Assuming that is the idea:
    You have established that A is somewhere on the line 2x+5y+6=0
    Have you tried sketching this on some axis and seeing how it relates to the position of the pivot?
    Trouble is, you have one equation and two unknowns - there is no unique solution to the equation. Put it another way, the line is the solution.

    For a unique solution you still need to know the angle the force makes with the moment arm somehow ... and information to do that has not been provided in the problem statement. That is as far as anyone can go with the information provided. Please reread the question to make sure there is no other information provided.
     
  7. Nov 21, 2011 #6
    Re: Question on moment !!!

    thank you for replying
    i don't know my teacher gave me this info only and asked about the equation that's all
    anyway thanks.
     
  8. Nov 21, 2011 #7

    Simon Bridge

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    Re: Question on moment !!!

    Thank you - but which equation?
    What exactly did your teacher ask you to do?

    It's pretty unusual for a teacher to give you a problem that cannot be solved.
     
  9. Nov 21, 2011 #8
    Re: Question on moment !!!

    hehe yes
    okay ,, he want the equation of the point on the line of action
     
  10. Nov 21, 2011 #9
    Re: Question on moment !!!

    look i got an idea what about getting Ma=zero k
    as the line pass through it
    so my problem now how to get the equation
    plz remind me how to get the equation
     
  11. Nov 21, 2011 #10

    Simon Bridge

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    Re: Question on moment !!!

    Ah OK - you already realise: the moment arm is the perpendicular distance from the center of rotation to the line of action of the force.

    The line you calculated is the "line of action" right?
    Did you draw the picture?
     
  12. Nov 22, 2011 #11
    Re: Question on moment !!!

    i got the point but dont know how to get equation plz tell me how
     
  13. Nov 22, 2011 #12

    Simon Bridge

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    Re: Question on moment !!!

    I don't understand - if you have the point, then what equation are you missing?

    In physics, the line of action of a force F expresses the geometry of how F is applied. It is the line through the point at which F is applied and along the direction in which F is applied. You have been supposing that you wanted to find the point that F is applied - but from what you say it looks like your teacher expects you to find the moment arm - which is different. The moment arm is the perpendicular distance from the center of rotation to the line of action of the force.

    You have the line of action.
    You can find a line perpendicular to that, which passes through the center or use the definition of angular momentum. (What is the angle of the applied force to the moment arm?)

    You realize that this is probably what the homework is testing?
    There is a limit to what I can tell you. Though you are free to search the web:
    http://www.purplemath.com/modules/strtlneq3.htm
     
  14. Dec 1, 2011 #13

    Simon Bridge

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    Re: Question on moment !!!

    How did you get on in the end?
     
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