First, let me note that you did not address the issue of why it is significant, from your perspective, that the US leads all other nations in psychometric research. It does the same in most fields of science. Now, let's look at your comment above:Nereid said:Mandrake:
Jensen is a US scientist and has done most of his work in California, presently under the rule of an Austrian.
The United States leads all countries in scientific research. Look at the Nobel Prizes in the sciences before and after WW2. There was a sudden shift from Germany to the US. I can't think of any reason to expect another country to do more research in psychometrics than would be the case in astronomy or particle physics.
Huh? What is the point of that comment? It applies quite well to magnetic data storage, DNA research, space travel, and lasers. I don't get it. I think you have made similar comments before. Why???
If all that you have is stamps (correlations), and the only stamps you have collected are from a few countries, how do you know that the rest of the world has stamps, or that they aren't made of diamond and not paper?
If all that you have is stamps (correlations)
This seems to imply that this is all that exists in psychometrics. We have discussed this topic before, but you have apparently forgotten it. Psychometrics is based on correlations AND laboratory measurements. I have previously listed the specific measurements and discussed some of them in detail. Suggesting that these don't exist comes across as very difficult to understand. Do you forget, or do you want to distort facts???
the only stamps you have collected are from a few countries
The stamp analogy is poorly considered and designed to be dismissive and misleading. The above comment is not correct. Psychometric data is collected and analyzed by scientists in a rather large number of nations. I have previously listed some and commented that the list of contributors to the journal Intelligence includes a large number of nations in each issue. The subjects of the studies include locals (from many countries) and citizens of other nations. If you really believe the things you are writing, you are misdirected to a point that your conclusions are highly likely to be incorrect (as is the case).
how do you know that the rest of the world has stamps
Stamp collecting is a canard. We know what research is being conducted in other nations by reading their published papers. I do. You apparently don't. Some of your comments indicate that you are following the discussion and asking good questions. But, then along come questions that have previously been discussed and answered.
Scientists study closed groups to eliminate variables. Within group studies were used to establish every point made in the first 12 chapters of The Bell Curve and the group in question was a single population group. When identical results are found between groups, there is a very high probability that the item being observed is not following different mechanistic processes in each group. You seem to be imagining how psychometric data has been collected and analyzed. I would like to suggest that a better approach would be to read what has been done, instead of guessing.How can you be confident that the biological correlates are the same for people whose life experiences are significantly different from those who you have studied?
You are making the presumption that temporary impairment is not understood. You are wrong. I would expect that there are pertinent studies that address some forms of impairment. I have read studies that address stress as it applies to IQ testing. If you read discussions of testing procedures, you will see many discussions of factors that can adversely affect test results. Some of these are small effects and some are large. There is also a matter of common sense. It does not take a complex scientific study to determine that drunk people are not suitable for research on topics other than as they relate to drunkenness. You are imagining a bias that you have not bothered to study. The most detailed text on the subject is Jensen, A.R. (1980). Bias in mental testing. New York: Free Press. I have pointed you to this reference on several occasions.Mandrake:
Is there some reason why psychometricians should be looking at temporary phenomena? If someone goes to sleep, I would bet that his score on an IQ test would not be high, but that it would not be meaningful either. My prior comment was in reference to permanent environmental factors that relate to the micro environment. I could not believe that you were really asking about temporary impairment. Do you think that there is scientific research concerning human running ability? I assume there is. If so, would it be your concern that they should study runners with broken legs, drunk runners, and runners who have not eaten for six days?
To reiterate the point about correlations, if you have no idea how 'temporary phenomena' affect the arbitrary constructs you are studying, how can you tell that there aren't 'temporary phenomena' which are systematically biassing your results?
Yes. The literature is rich with papers that address permanent impairment from disease and injury. Animal studies are important with respect to injury, since they include the intentional destruction of various brain regions, as I described to you in an earlier message. There may be literature on temporary impairment that extrapolates to some useful conclusions, other than that the person soul not be included in a psychometric study.Further, if you hypothesise that _g_ is something to do with brain processes, don't studies of impairment tell you a great deal?
What is "this?" You previously told us that neuroscience was "cool" to intelligence research. That is not true. So, I must conclude that your research into this topic should continue.AFAIK, this is just how much progress has been made into the neurophysiology (?) of language.
This is a good topic for you to research. I have not read any studies about it. What data have you seen that suggests intelligence impairment from smoking?To give a possibly irrelevant example; several decades ago smoking was widespread, and even then nicotine was understood to have neurological effects. Presumably Jensen et al tried very hard to control for this 'temporary phenomenon', but given the near ubiquity of the social habit, the persistence of the drug (and metabolites) in the brain, and people's imperfect veracity when it comes to reporting such habits, are you confident that the effect of smoking as a temporary phenomenon has been completely eliminated from old data?
The information you presented didn't list all of the countries where scientists are presently studying psychometrics. There is nothing to suggest that the science of psychometrics is actually a variable that is dependent on the number of people working in one sector or another. Psychometrics has been around for about a century. In that time the economic demographics of most advanced countries have changed. So what?Mandrake:
This comment is not correct. Passive testing has been done in the US, Australia, New Zealand, England, and probably Germany and other countries.
All of which are service-based economies (see below)
Recent studies reported in just the last two issues of Intelligence came from:
Spain, England, Chile, Ireland, Denmark, The Netherlands, Canada, Germany, Norway, Australia, France, USA, and Estonia. If you were to take the time to look back further, papers from other nations would be found. Science is science. It is practiced by nations that have enough intellect to pursue it. I doubt that you will find papers from Uganda, Kenya, Haiti, etc.
You have a great imagination. Populations have been studied from all over the world. Interestingly, there are studies of population groups that have lived together for centuries and studies of the same groups (genetically) within other countries (no admixture).Mandrake:
The service based economy thing is spurious.
Au contraire, mon ami! As I said above, extrapolating *correlations* found in one set of circumstances is contraindicated in good science;
You have not understood the discussions. We have studies based on chronometrics, electroencephalography, MRI, PET, fMRI, autopsy, and the measurement of biological parameters (such as brain pH).if all you have is correlations (and our discussion of the state of play wrt neuroscience and theory certainly seems to indicate that we've little else today)
Yes. As we know, researchers have not confined themselves to their homelands, nor have they confined themselves to any particular type of economy.Mandrake:
If you must keep including it, please explain your reason each time. Science is not dependent on whether the researchers live in a service based economy or not.
It's not where the researchers live so much as where the *subjects* live.