What Consumers Think About Raising Minimum Wage | Election 2020

  • Thread starter mattmns
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Minimum
In summary, the conversation discusses the issue of raising the minimum wage and its impact on consumers. Some believe that raising the minimum wage will result in higher prices for consumers, while others argue that there is no evidence of this and that the minimum wage is not meant to be a "living wage." It is also mentioned that the purpose of the minimum wage is to prevent employers from taking advantage of employees and that it should not be the government's role to ensure a fair wage for all workers. The conversation also touches on personal experiences with minimum wage jobs and the ability to live comfortably on minimum wage. Overall, there is no clear consensus on the issue and it is a complex topic with various perspectives.
  • #1
mattmns
1,128
6
There is an election coming up, and one of the issues is raising the minimum wage, and I am curious about how raising the minimum wage affects the consumer. Naturally, I think that this hurts the consumer as the companies that hire minimum wage employees will have to increase prices in order to compensate for the extra money they will have to pay their workers, but I am sure there is more to it.

So what do you all think about the issue from a consumer standpoint?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
It depends on how high they raise it. Most state minimum wages are already well above the federal minimum wage, so an increase that doesn't go up to these state levels won't even effect the minimum wage in these states.
 
  • #3
minimum wage causes unemployment...
 
  • #4
Minimum wage doesn't cause unemployment. Couple it with high taxes, mandatory benefits and fees, and other such things and then you have unemployment.

IRT OP:

Most people see (possibly not noticable) higher prices but a few people will see higher wages and be able to buy more. It's a very complicated issue however and there isn't a real concrete answer to it.
 
  • #5
Unless there is a problem in your area with people not being able to support themselves on minimum wage, don't raise it.

That's my position.
 
  • #6
There has been no evidence that raising the minimum wage has caused layoffs even at the burger flipping level. And who said an individual could live on the minimum wage? That's what, $1000 - $1200 a month? Can't house, clothe, and feed yourself on that in most parts of the USA.
 
  • #7
Minimum wage is there so that when some 14 year-old kid gets their first after-school job flipping burgers or sweeping floors with zero experience and is a bit naive about the working world, or someone who is mentally disabled with only minimum working skills gets a job picking up trays and taking out trash because they can only do the most simple tasks unsupervised, their employer can't take advantage of them and only pay them 50 cents per hour. They aren't supposed to live off it or support themselves.

When an employer is hiring experienced employees for skilled jobs, that should not be a minimum wage job, and it rarely is. That's not to say that some employers don't try to get away with it, but that is not the job of federal government to raise the minimum wage even for the unskilled workers just because adults don't know how to stand up for themselves and demand a fair wage for the work they are doing. Minimum wage and fair wage are not the same thing.

On the other hand, when the minimum wage hasn't really changed much in over a decade, in all reality, employers are probably already paying more just because you hit a point where kids aren't going to work for minimum wage if they can't even go out to dinner and a movie for their Saturday night dates on that wage. When the majority of employers are already paying more than minimum wage anyway, it's a very easy time for a politician to come in and make themselves look good to raise the minimum wage up to match the actual wages being paid.
 
  • #8
That's a good point, Moonbear. Even when I was a teenager, the first job I ever held paid $12 an hour, and the next one paid $14. I've rarely even heard of any jobs outside of fast food service that actually paid minimum wage.
 
  • #9
My son, when he was in his early twenties ten years ago spent several years doing warehouse work, lifting 50 pound boxes, essentailly, for $6 - $8 an hour. He lived on us and later with a girl friend, and got his microcircuit education at night at the local community college. He would have found your high paying jobs a wonder.
 
  • #10
I don't see why. I've had those jobs that didn't pay too well, too, especially when I was living with my parents and going to a community college. In fact, it was better that I made less money once I went back to school, because it allowed me to receive more financial aid.

If you're wondering, the two jobs were moving office furniture and being a Census Enumerator. They weren't that hard to get. The other two jobs I held that have paid that much were being an instructional aide at a community college math department and performing at Disneyland. Those two actually required a talent/skill of some sort. I've also cleaned toilets for $7/hr. I didn't mind, as it wasn't a particularly difficult job.
 
  • #11
selfAdjoint said:
There has been no evidence that raising the minimum wage has caused layoffs even at the burger flipping level. And who said an individual could live on the minimum wage? That's what, $1000 - $1200 a month? Can't house, clothe, and feed yourself on that in most parts of the USA.
Then it should be raised.
 
  • #12
Smurf said:
Then it should be raised.

I currently receive about $1400 a month in addition to the money I receive that goes directly to paying my tuition, and I live comfortably on that. I live modestly (don't even own any furniture and rarely go out) and don't support a family, but it's not like it's impossible to do.
 
  • #13
Smurf said:
Unless there is a problem in your area with people not being able to support themselves on minimum wage, don't raise it.

That's my position.
selfAdjoint said:
And who said an individual could live on the minimum wage? That's what, $1000 - $1200 a month? Can't house, clothe, and feed yourself on that in most parts of the USA.
Common liberal position. The general conservative position is that the minimum wage is not/should not be meant to be a "living wage".

Adults who are able-bodied and not otherwise encumbered by a circumstance out of their control are not worthy of making more than minimum wage and the government should not be subsidizing their mediocrity. And people who are disabled or otherwise encumbered by a circumstance beyond their control should already be getting government assistance.
 
  • #14
russ_watters said:
Common liberal position. The general conservative position is that the minimum wage is not/should not be meant to be a "living wage".

Adults who are able-bodied and not otherwise encumbered by a circumstance out of their control are not worthy of making more than minimum wage and the government should not be subsidizing their mediocrity. And people who are disabled or otherwise encumbered by a circumstance beyond their control should already be getting government assistance.
Yes we are quite familiar of your celebration of the perpetuation and infliction of human misery.
 
  • #15
arildno said:
Yes we are quite familiar of your celebration of the perpetuation and infliction of human misery.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Okay, seriously though:
The general conservative position is that the minimum wage is not/should not be meant to be a "living wage".

Adults who are able-bodied and not otherwise encumbered by a circumstance out of their control are not worthy of making more than minimum wage and the government should not be subsidizing their mediocrity.
So the conservative position is that:
1. Minimum wage shouldn't be enough to live on
2. We recognize some people won't be worthy of making more than minimum wage
Thus,
3. Those people are not worthy of making enough to live on.

Can you please explain to me why someone would support this?

And I don't see the connection with "subsidizing mediocrity", why have a minimum wage at all?
 
Last edited:
  • #16
Smurf said:
:Okay, seriously though:
So the conservative position is that:
1. Minimum wage shouldn't be enough to live on
2. We recognize some people won't be worthy of making more than minimum wage
Thus,
3. Those people are not worthy of making enough to live on.

Can you please explain to me why someone would support this?

And I don't see the connection with "subsidizing mediocrity"...
Why? Because not subsidising mediocrity encourages people to choose NOT to be mediocre. It's the basic economics of supply and demand in a labor market. Motivation=demand. All people's motivation levels are different and if the government steps in and gives people (or forces others to give - same diff) money they didn't earn, that reduces the motivation to earn it for themselves.

People make life-choices based on available wages all the time. The closest I ever got to minimum wage was when I was enlisted in the Navy and the military is a perfect example of where motivation pays off. It was sad - pathetic even - the number of people who simply made no effort whatsoever to get promoted. For the lower ranks, all you have to do is get some training worksheets signed off and pass a test.

It applies to all levels, though: I have a friend who quit a job in advertising 3 years ago to work at the Camden Aquarium for 25% less money and no chance for upward mobility. He's turning 31 next week and has little chance of moving out of his parents' house in the near future. He's dissatisfied with his life, but too comfortable in his job to change.

Heck, I'm a good example of lack of motivation. I have $24k from the GI bill that I can use to pay for a master's degree, but I haven't done it yet because I'm comfortable with my current life situation.
...why have a minimum wage at all?
In many parts of the country, it is utterly pointless to have a minimum wage. As others noted, not even 16 year old burger-flippers make minimum wage in many parts of the country. My first job (food service at a nursing home) paid $6.50 about 13 years ago and before I left high school, I was working as a temp for $9-13 an hour (job dependent).

Near as I can tell, the only economic basis of having a minimum wage in a market economy is just to cut off the bottom of the supply/demand curve, where things get a little chaotic. But the real reason we have it has nothing to do with economics: it's just something that politicians can make sound nice in a 30 second tv commercial.

Democratic candidates constantly proclaiming "raise the minimum wage!" in reality makes as much (little) sense as Republican ones who always proclaim "lower taxes!" Neither issue is anywhere near as straightforward as the soundbytes would lead you to believe.

arildno said:
Yes we are quite familiar of your celebration of the perpetuation and infliction of human misery.
Quite the contrary, arildno. The basis of my position is the acceptance of the reality that market economics is responsible for the economic growth in the world. I find it ironic and disturbing that so many people believe exactly the opposite about the conservative viewpoint from what it actually means: What I am celebrating is the vast reduction in "human misery" caused by the successful implimentation of market economics.

The liberal viewpoint appears to me to be based primarily on oversimplification/shortsightedness. The logic is simply: raise the minimum wage and people will make more money. When is anything ever that simple?

This is starting to seem political, but I wan to emphasize: the conservative position is based on market economics. If ever there is a "correct" or "incorrect" position in politics (caveat: the evolution debate), this is it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage" [Broken] has a nice article on it. The way economists describe it, it's a price floor - the same as if the government artificially inflated the price of, say, produce (which it does). The difference is that an apple isn't capable of making itself bigger, redder, and shinier to improve it's value. But the bottom line is this:
The costs and benefits arising from minimum wages are subject to considerable disagreement among economists, though the consensus among economics textbooks is that minimum wage laws should be avoided whenever possible as the costs exceed the benefits. Indeed, a survey in the Winter 2005 issue of the Journal of Economic Perspectives reports that exactly two-thirds of academic economists at top universities agree with the statement, "a minimum wage increases unemployment among young and unskilled."
My opinion differs slightly from the economists only in that mine is more focused on the detrimental effects it has on society and individuals in it. Overall, the economics of it has very little impact on our society as a whole because so few earn minimum wage, but the social impact for those in that situation is much larger. I simply hate to see people not live up to their potential and hate more seeing them rewarded for it. Its just bad parenting and everyone knows that spoiling your children makes them greedy and unmotivated. Right now, minimum wage increases have been so close to inflation that there hasn't been any data to show negative effects of increasing it too much. However, if we were to, as some imply we should, make the minimum wage a "living wage", that'd mean raising it above the poverty line. If we went on a sliding scale, the minimum wage for a single person would be about $4.50, while the minimum wage for a head of household in a family of four would be $9.20.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #17
Do you think we shouldn't have a minimum wage at all then Russ?
 
  • #18
Any economist worth their salt can comprehend the fact that if you raise the minimum wage, then there will be increased consumer demand. The working class spend their money, the rich hoard it.
 
  • #19
russ_watters said:
Quite the contrary, arildno. The basis of my position is the acceptance of the reality that market economics is responsible for the economic growth in the world. I find it ironic and disturbing that so many people believe exactly the opposite about the conservative viewpoint from what it actually means: What I am celebrating is the vast reduction in "human misery" caused by the successful implimentation of market economics.
The "conservative position" is belied by every single statistics relevant to the measurement of "misery".
The simplest is the crime&poverty statistics.
There are no Western European countries with even approaching levels of crime&poverty than that of US. This proves, in my opinion, that US society is a vastly inferior society to live in.
 
  • #20
I don't know, some would consider South Africa a developed, "western" society. That would beat the USA.
 
  • #21
flotsam said:
Any economist worth their salt can comprehend the fact that if you raise the minimum wage, then there will be increased consumer demand. The working class spend their money, the rich hoard it.
Raising the minimum wage reduces demand for labour, causing unemployment, which reduces the consumer demand, because now fewer people have jobs.

That's the neoclassical economist explanation anyway.
 
  • #22
Smurf said:
I don't know, some would consider South Africa a developed, "western" society. That would beat the USA.
It is hardly a European country.
 
  • #23
arildno said:
It is hardly a European country.
nor is japan or australia *shrug*. Your choice.
 
  • #24
If you guys want to discuss this (ie, answer the question in post 17), I will, but the random USA bashing that is irrelevant to the thread doesn't make me want to respond. Grow up first, then let me know you're ready to discuss this.
 
  • #25
russ_watters said:
If you guys want to discuss this (ie, answer the question in post 17), I will, but the random USA bashing that is irrelevant to the thread doesn't make me want to respond. Grow up first, then let me know you're ready to discuss this.
It is already answered by your theory being proven false by reality.
perhaps you should remove your blindfold to facts before proceeding.
 
  • #26
Smurf said:
Raising the minimum wage reduces demand for labour, causing unemployment, which reduces the consumer demand, because now fewer people have jobs.
That's the neoclassical economist explanation anyway.

Rubbish, raising the minimum wage increases demand for labour through increased demand for produce. How is that refutable. Neoclassical, has always been a contradictory word unworthy of its dictionary placement.
 
  • #27
flotsam said:
Rubbish, raising the minimum wage increases demand for labour through increased demand for produce. How is that refutable. Neoclassical, has always been a contradictory word unworthy of its dictionary placement.
Interesting, I'll pitch that to my econ prof on monday.

Let's play a little game: What do you think he'll say? :biggrin:
 
  • #28
flotsam said:
Rubbish, raising the minimum wage increases demand for labour through increased demand for produce. How is that refutable. Neoclassical, has always been a contradictory word unworthy of its dictionary placement.

Sounds good but why doesn't it work? Go to any nation with high consumer subsidies and high minimum wage and you'll usually find a low GDP, CPI, and high unemployment. So why doesn't your theory work?

Also. Minimum wage increases SUPPLY for labor but should theoretically decrease demand for it, but the demand part doesn't also show up. There is no increased demand for produce. There is a decrease in aggregate supply of produce and slight negligable increase in aggregate demand because few actually benefit from the minimum wage increase.

flotsam said:
Any economist worth their salt can comprehend the fact that if you raise the minimum wage, then there will be increased consumer demand. The working class spend their money, the rich hoard it.

Also, The rich *hoarding* their money is the cause for economic growth, increased competition, followed by reduced prices. This hoarding is also known as investing and saving. Its required to purchase capital, which the US and any advanced economy is driven by.
 
Last edited:

What is the current minimum wage in the United States?

The federal minimum wage in the United States is currently $7.25 per hour.

How does the minimum wage impact consumer spending?

Raising the minimum wage can potentially lead to an increase in consumer spending as workers have more disposable income to spend on goods and services.

What are the potential benefits of raising the minimum wage?

Potential benefits of raising the minimum wage include reducing poverty, increasing consumer spending, and stimulating economic growth.

What are the potential drawbacks of raising the minimum wage?

Potential drawbacks of raising the minimum wage include potential job loss, increased costs for small businesses, and potential inflation.

What is the current stance of the 2020 presidential candidates on raising the minimum wage?

Most Democratic candidates have expressed support for raising the minimum wage, with some proposing a federal minimum wage of $15 per hour. President Trump has not expressed support for raising the federal minimum wage, but has indicated he would support state-level increases.

Similar threads

  • Computing and Technology
Replies
2
Views
986
Replies
34
Views
5K
  • General Discussion
2
Replies
65
Views
12K
  • General Discussion
2
Replies
35
Views
7K
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • General Discussion
2
Replies
53
Views
6K
  • General Discussion
2
Replies
66
Views
9K
Replies
31
Views
9K
  • Computing and Technology
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • DIY Projects
Replies
13
Views
1K
Back
Top